Yeah yeah again server wipe topic ;P
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First, i do not wish to have a open discussion on the topic but still, feel free to drop a line if you wish so, but we need to keep civil as i do not wish, this become a post for retribution, i jsut wish to inform you all of my observation of this great game.
( THIS IS MY OBSEVATION AFTER SOME YEARS OF PLAY )
there is 3 type of player on arabel, all of wich are needed.
1 - DM friend, or player that know how to drive a dm or player plot as they are very experienced. those player have acces to unique magical items or even personalise items, not found in shop, and greater ammount of gold generated.
2 - players friend of dm friends, wich have great acces to player and dm plot while following those that drive the plot themselves, those players have acces to greater ammount of gold, and have also acces to some interesting magic item not found in shop.
3 - players that are loners, or friends to friends of dm friends.. ( get it ), they do not get much acces to dm plot or player plots, less gold, and only acces to the normal magic item found in shop, after questing much, or hutning in small party or alone. but those player help everyone of the first two categories to quest, get level back, get even more gold throught scrpited quest and the benefits is reciprocated for all paries.All of these players, make/generate a life in arabel, and all are as imnportant, for a good life appearance, than just the regular npc you meet along your travel, wich are mostly static, now my point about the server wipe, wich i have read all along the many post about it, is that most of the player that have great acces to the dms, are very willing, as what they will lose, they will get eventualy back pretty easily, the second categories will surely feel a bit down, but will keep playing, as they will still have great fun… now the last players type, wich are needed, wont find it amusing at all, as they will need to start all over again, but to the sweat of their brows ( so to speak ) wich is a lot more harder than having great acces to dm. for me it will be what will kill the game.
Dont get me wrong here, i am not complaining about anyone, nor the fact some player have easier acces to dm ( be it throught real friendship, wich is a genuine argument, be it because they have great understanding of the game or have natural charisman that reflect easly in the game itself, wich it not everyone that has it that easy).
( THIS IS WHAT I WOULD ASK DM'S TO THINK ABOUT )
So if dm could oversee that some players, that are in the third categorie, not be forgotten... that would be great, perhaps letting them keep some cool stuff they have accumulated, even though a bit time consuming for dm, remember we also build up part of your worlds, as we help other player througth role play , as helping them devellopping their character as our own.(THIS IS MY OWN FEELING OF THE GAME )
You know, myself, i have a hard time with dm, hard to have acces to them on the forum, and not often well responded, perhaps because of my lack of understanding of all the games rules, instead of being guided, i am getting reprimended all the times, wich lead me to ask dm's less and less, and intimidate me ( well up to a point ;P)although any mechanical problem was always answered with great proffessionalism on the dm team. but stilll most of you know me by now, and most of you, know that i am trying like you, to build genuine good rp with most of you guys/gals here.
What keep me here, is players, because it is with them i roleplay the most, and it is with them that my own role play seem appreciated, and also because over a long time, i ahve developped real friendship with some of you, and this is a very important part of the game
anyway, just some reflection on my part to keep this game going... as the player database has gotten to a very low this past months, and i understand many of the reason why, let not be blind, and open a bit more about it. let try and keep all three type of player in Arabel.rant rant rant, and more ranting going on for the next three page.... :P
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I think your feelings are justified and there doesn't need to be a discussion here.
I believe all your asking is not to be forgotten or overlooked as a player. If you need some lovin' I'll give ya some lovin'.
;)
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I quite firmly fall into the third category of player you mentioned and buddy I feel your frustration. However, I'm firmly pro wipe. All that being said I don't keep coming back here for levels, gold, items or DM attention. I come back for the awesome RP. I've come to accept I'm never going to be a big mover and shaker on CoA (partly due to my TZ and partly due to my casual play time), but I can still have fun and hopefully learn a thing or two so I can help those who have the gift for making an impact on this server, and be a useful cog in the wheel.
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Ooh-kay! This thread has potential.
I've also got an observation of my own that just can't be a coincidence.
Here goes.
There are three groups of people:
1- Players who truly mastered power that words wield and never write an emote shorter than two lines. They get all the attention.
2- Average Joes. Speak in short sentences, don't use many adjectives. Not popular.
3- Foreigners who speak butchered English - permanently ostracized! -
Not sure you are being sarcastic or not, but if you are not, i would answer you this
you have a point, therefore let s remove the average joes, to better the quality of roleplay, now let s remove those that have a hard time with english, but still try to play with this community because they annoy us as they bucher english oh but dont mind them having another national languages like french, italian, arabic, spanish ect… mind them making the effort to at least try and learn or speak english... so here that leave about 5-8 players in peak time, so 2-3 on low time.... good luck building lots of intruige and many twist with the same person over and over and over.... my point truly, is a way to immerse all and everyone into a game, witout having player becoming grievers or such because they have been feeling left out too many often,i am myself a construction worker, but fairly well educated, i am not a secretary who may use keyboard as a instrument of work, therefore be a master of quick tipping, the average joe as you call them, may as well just have a harder time tipping fast than other, and chose to shorten their sentence to keep up the pace of a ongoing convo between one or two or three, heck sometimes 5-7 people all speak at once, and also the largess of one imagination varies greatly from one to another, some have ways with words, other not, hmmm seem like the real world to me in a way i remember kids in school who sat in the back of the room, wich we never heard all years long ( average joe) well their help was always needed, still when playing soccer in gym to form a full equip, and they were those that cry out extravetite and were adulated by others and become class president( master player)..... so again why not be open and includ everyone...
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People have told me that playing here helped them to learn a little more about english which I find really cool. Nothing wrong with not being a master of prose like Strawman or something, Always try to respond to the meaning of the characters words, not the grammar etc.
Captain, 99.99% sure direfish didn't mean to offend you if he did there.
We'll try to make whatever happens wipe wise as fair as possible. It's never possible to make everyone happy though, but we'll try.
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I would agree with the first post and add that is also depends very much on the character, concept, plots, playtime, timezone, DMs playing, etc. I would say that throughout the years I was in all three groups and I don't see that as a bad thing. Sometimes it is good to tag along, sometimes it is good to drive stuff. As long as the player has fun and doesn't ruin the fun for others, it is all good.
As for wipe, I don't mind it at all - and I got 4 or 5 characters in my fault level 8-10 or so with neat and unique loot. It is just a game and as long as the final showdown is awesome and characters can go out with a big bang, it is all fun and games.
But what will happen after the wipe? I believe over time we will again see the three groups crystalize, perhaps the balance changes slightly, perhaps we get more players on CoA again but even though there will be the leaders, the followers and the tag alongs. And I will again end up in all three over time.
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Also another grouping…
1) people who actively involve others and formulate plots which will drive the imagination
Class the Dms in this first category and also those players that 'know' how to COA. (DMs are players too btw!!!)2) people who actively involve others and push the plots of others
is most of us i think, not necessarily creative enough to come up with a plot that catches anyone's attention but understanding enough about the server and the inclusivity that is needed to push a plot they have acquired.3) people who are involved with others plots
Those players that want to learn how to do stuff and are responsive to others ideas.4) people who play without significant reference to plots
People come here to let off steam and enjoy themselves without any desire to become involved in anything greater than monster killing.There is a need and a place for all of the types, but ideally we should all aspire to learn what is fun and inclusive for all that play here because it is a community. Language is not something that should affect how a character is perceived except where it is an ic thing (thinking such as Scar there), however it will always make it harder for those that are speaking English as a second(third/fourth?) language.
The length of emotes etc might make for more flavourful dialogue etc but it isnt actually needed for a plot that engages the imagination of the playerbase. Take that in mind and look at what you seek to achieve in game and consider how it will affect others that play, because if it doesnt fire their imagination then you will pursue it alone. That is the bottom line, what any player wants in game needs to attract others to it or it becomes a solo mission which will always struggle to gain the DM sponsorship that catapults it to a major plot.
My thoughts anyway, and though i have no idea how i am percieved by other players and dms i always feel that i struggle to create stories that are inspiring and draw others to them, but i aspire to it because that is when you truely win COA. ;)
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Well said
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@Captain:
Not sure you are being sarcastic or not
I'm not really. It was just a light-hearted joke meant to show that correlation does not imply causation.
But I guess it failed. :( -
It is true that good use of english helps a lot. Then again I 've seen people with awesome emoting, very close to reading a book, coming here to just let off steam, not really involved much because they chose not to probably, or just don't know how CoA works, or their schedules are so hectic they cannot actually program their inclusive events.
The key thing I think that matters the most in order to get the attention of a DM is getting in touch with them before implementing your ideas, before character creation even. They are always helpful pointing out ways to improve those ideas, even though some may be harsher than others in the way they type their thoughts on screen. This usually fails when you have already reached a high level doing just leveling and questing, having done nothing to include people in your plans in the process. And I 've been there, knowing that it's the less productive way to do things, and still some DM always heard my (mostly not succesfully implemented) plans. I 've found out that starting fresh is always more interesting, not only to you as a player, but the DMs as well.
Do not forget that DMs watch a story evolving and they can be bored to hell seeing the same characters doing the same drill over and over. It is reasonable to ignore very old characters to a small extent.
I certainly am not a plot leader, and cannot follow plots consistently myself, which puts me in some of the above categories, but I still favor a wipe for certain reasons discussed in other threads. Its a chance for the less involved in things to start anew whith fresh ideas, see if they can do things differently this time. Include people. That's the most important thing a player needs to do to get noticed. Use forums, be it with a journal (not a fan of those but still they work), bulletins, IC letters, whatever. Let DMs know what you 're trying to achieve. Now, if getting involved in plots and DM quests is not your playstyle, its still fine. Less Dm attention but who cares? You can still get a few friends and go out do your things, perhaps even involve others once or twice, but with the goal of entertaining everyone, not just show off levels. (This is a generic comment, not addressed to anyone in specific, it has been very long since I saw any such behaviour here).
My problem with pushing thigs? I cannot come up with creative ways to involve people without DM help. Simple patrols around the server only get you so far. I 'd love to get those people that belong in the same RPer category as me, and for once do a joined concept with some clear goals, try to do things a bit differently. Also.. I m looking for a concept, so if you are in the same place, do PM me, we may come up with something.
I also was unable to makelong posts… now though....
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no worry Direfish, no harm done, my bad for lack of understanding, you re all good with me :)… so hopefully we will all have fun... i greatly hope so, cuz i like many people here, and the server layout is awesome even for a old old game... it is still have flavor to it, and graphic appealing enough to me and i am sure many others too
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I’d like to add two more sub categories
**Those who have OOC knowledge of how the server works
Those who don’t have OOC knowledge of how the server works**
I’ve played on and off for years on this server and I’m still clueless when it comes to the geography of the server (I have no direction sense in RL too), where the various shops are (especially the class shops I’ve heard about), where the quests are (and there level range), and the various secrets of Arabel (portal passwords, locations of secret places and how to gain entry etc). This is one of the biggest obstacles for me to get others involved. This coupled with my timezone (GMT +13) and casual playtime (2-3 times a week for between 1-3 hours) is the real killer for me.
Some of the above can be mitigated by me exploring Arabel taking screenshots of my maps, and systematically finding the npc quest givers and writing down their party sizes and level ranges, and also asking in game for this information.
This is still a big learning curve, and this is the same learning curve that any prospective new player will face. For those who know how the server works (which obviously isn’t me) it’s apparently easy to get a character up to level 9 within a week of playing. Part of that must be playing in a TZ where there are enough players to group up, the other big part is OOC knowledge of Arabel.
Despite what I’ve mentioned above I’m not actually complaining about the above situation. I’m merely trying to highlight a difficulty for new and/or casual players. I’m a big proponent of not mentioning or complaining about a perceived problem, unless you’re prepared to do something about it, or have a suggestion on how to remedy it.
//One option would be players to have low level characters set aside to help newcomers get the feel of Arabel and the lay of the land. I’m more than happy to do this. However a big problem is how to know when a new player arrives to the server. My suggestion (which I will post in the suggestion thread) is to give a select group of players an item (such as a ring) which will notify them when a new player logs on. This could be accomplished via a chat in the starting area (“Are you a new player the server? There are currently # player ambassadors who could help introduce you to the Arabel server”).
Players who have this ring could be notified that a new player has joined. They could then be ambassadors to the new payer, show them how Arabel works, point them in the direction of the quests to get them their first level, and then group with them to do some of the early quests. This could go a long way to helping these new comers stick around. Not only will this be an awesome experience for new players it could help factions recruit new members.
My controversial suggestion is for this ring is to enable a temporarily reduction in a characters level to level 3 (to enable the character to interact with the new player). The trade- off would be that the ambassador doesn’t earn XP or gold for doing the quest. Yes there are possible exploits which is why you only give the ring to trusted players, which could require an application.
Alternatively new players could have the option of getting a walk through book like EFU. I’m not a big fan of this option, as it stops new players getting involved with the current player base.
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Players who have this ring could be notified that a new player has joined. They could then be ambassadors to the new payer, show them how Arabel works, point them in the direction of the quests to get them their first level, and then group with them to do some of the early quests. This could go a long way to helping these new comers stick around. Not only will this be an awesome experience for new players it could help factions recruit new members.
I fully understand your distinction between OOC knowledge of the server structure and IC knowledge.. but why limit your interactions to only help "new" players. Every 1st level character on the server is likely "new" to the city and have plenty of IC excuses to ask for a tour, or information or what have you. Doing it this way can help take the players that are fair RPers that know the ins and outs of the initial questing areas and some back history to the areas and have them interact with the "movers and shakers" of the servers to possibly learn how to become one themselves through IC actions. This is completely just my two cents on that matter and would remove the need for apps, scripting the rings, or even having to make the rings. It is simple enough to have a couple low level characters lurking in your vault to swap to* to lend a hand to the other low level characters occasionally to help them figure out a few things and get started, then swap back to your main to continue pushing your plots*.
*this assumes that your main character is not currently low levels themselves and is only suggested as while yes, levels should not matter in RP, helping low level characters do quests in the environment of a low player count goes beyond pointing out where to find the quests to having an appropriate leveled character to actually assist people in DOING those quests that require 2 or more characters.
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Players who have this ring could be notified that a new player has joined. They could then be ambassadors to the new payer, show them how Arabel works, point them in the direction of the quests to get them their first level, and then group with them to do some of the early quests. This could go a long way to helping these new comers stick around. Not only will this be an awesome experience for new players it could help factions recruit new members.
I fully understand your distinction between OOC knowledge of the server structure and IC knowledge.. but why limit your interactions to only help "new" players. Every 1st level character on the server is likely "new" to the city and have plenty of IC excuses to ask for a tour, or information or what have you. Doing it this way can help take the players that are fair RPers that know the ins and outs of the initial questing areas and some back history to the areas and have them interact with the "movers and shakers" of the servers to possibly learn how to become one themselves through IC actions. This is completely just my two cents on that matter and would remove the need for apps, scripting the rings, or even having to make the rings. It is simple enough to have a couple low level characters lurking in your vault to swap to* to lend a hand to the other low level characters occasionally to help them figure out a few things and get started, then swap back to your main to continue pushing your plots*.
*this assumes that your main character is not currently low levels themselves and is only suggested as while yes, levels should not matter in RP, helping low level characters do quests in the environment of a low player count goes beyond pointing out where to find the quests to having an appropriate leveled character to actually assist people in DOING those quests that require 2 or more characters.
In my suggestion thread I mentioned the ring notifying when a character with 1 XP logs in. It could also work with characters who have 0 xp, which is what you start with when you’re in the starting area. I believe you get 1 xp when to arrive in Arabel to stop you appearing in the start area. I agree with your suggestion about having low level characters in your vault. The purpose of the ring would be to notify players when a new character logs in and then allow them to lower their level so they can actually interact with them of the low level quests. Otherwise there would need to be some general notification across the server saying that a new player has logged on. Without some form of notification (either to Ambassadors or to the server as a whole) players won’t know if the gamespy id of the player is for a new character, an old character or a new/old gamespy id.
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In my suggestion thread I mentioned the ring notifying when a character with 1 XP logs in. It could also work with characters who have 0 xp, which is what you start with when you’re in the starting area. I believe you get 1 xp when to arrive in Arabel to stop you appearing in the start area. I agree with your suggestion about having low level characters in your vault. The purpose of the ring would be to notify players when a new character logs in and then allow them to lower their level so they can actually interact with them of the low level quests. Otherwise there would need to be some general notification across the server saying that a new player has logged on. Without some form of notification (either to Ambassadors or to the server as a whole) players won’t know if the gamespy id of the player is for a new character, an old character or a new/old gamespy id.
All new characters on the server should be treated the same in my opinion, if it is an old player with a new account or old account or a new player altogether, you will likely find out fairly quickly, or not at all if you keep it in character the whole time. Perhaps when a Oxp character logs in the server could send a server wide message along the lines of "The City of Arabel welcomes a newcomer to the city". I am mainly suggesting against the ring/temp delevel due to EASY massive exploits with it, and the wicked scripting it must take to take say a 8th lvl character, temp delevel it for some unspecified amount of time, then give back an equal amount of xp to relevel or return to the same xp as before and HOPE the player makes the same choices again and again every time.
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Said this before, will say this again.
What we need is to somehow encourage faction players involve other characters in their faction plots.
And I'm not just talking about walking somewhere, killing some monsters and then standing there while faction players roleplay with npcs. I mean real involvement. Joint ventures, assignments - old Gentles' style.
Of course we need to reinvent our factions, redefine them so that even players outside these factions could identify with them to some extent. Not join them just because it's a DM faction (like SB) -
we need a way to identify new players, in the last 4 or 5 week we have had two i know of who have come into the server, the one i see now fairly regular, and the second i hope to see with more frequency as well.
we do not need to embarrass them with a server wide announcement, as some may wish to acclimated slowly, but by far the most want to get in with both hands and get into it right away, but knowing someone is new would be nice, even if by a tell, if anyone happens to see me on my main is Eliane now (80 percent or more of my game time is spent with her) and Rav (I only bring her in when i run out of things to do with Eliane and can not find any RP, and if i happen to find a new player I prefer to use Rav, as she is able to show the person a few things Eliane cannot without metagaming)
so please, if anyone see's a new player and see's me on, shoot me a tell, i will drop what i am doing (with some exceptions, as being in the middle of a quest, if it is a DM one and i am not needed i will petition the DM to be allowed to leave or be ported out to help the new player, but so far that has not happened, i have been free most times lately)
and for the record i do enjoy showing new people the ropes, both ic and ooc, the RP i get out of it is fun as well, as i do include some of that as well
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I always found it really good fun to find/figure out these strange new places, like the world serpent inn. I spent ages trying to figure that out, and the celestial too, and once I did I loved it. Mysteries and secrets are awesome, giving it all away is kind of boring to me.