DM Announcement RE: Favortism Et Al.
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About magic item…I think DMS try to balance thing.... i dont know if they do correctly..but i think it them intention..
exemple..: couple of week ago.. i play a dwarven miner.... i go in a DM game.. and DM give me a bag ..-100 % weight reduction... DM comeback to me 10 minute after.... and said.. the bag i give you it to powefull.. i will give you a other... .but he said he was not able to creat a other one so he give me one of thos bag we fond in the celestial forge....
After that Erin die and show his stuff on the forum.. she have one of thos bag DM didnt want to give to my character...
I think of it.. and .. i come in the conclusion.. they left this Bag to Erin.. becose Erin will not use it for something who can not realy unbalance the server...
She will put in..mmm some of her stuff she find sometime.. and that all..it will not gone change nothing important realy...and aneways.. when DMS and her will decide .. she will ''die permanently'' become a star in the sky or what ever.....and she will be happy whit this...her bag will desapear with her...
For my dwarf miner.. this bag will be amazing.. it will mean i will be able to go get alot of ore when i go mine..even i do not have 18 in str... and i will be able to do it whitout to many peoples to come with me.. for carry the ore... it mean more gems for me.....etc.....It mean i get a big advantage compar of other miners characters...and i will go mine alot and craft and not lost to much time in town.. I will gone try to regroupe 2 or 3 other miner characters and will build a litle team with them for go get the mitrhil..etc... in dangerous place... and become high level and ritch fast...and if i die or stop play my character i will try to give my bag to a othe character of the miner groupe. etc..etc
So at the end.. it probably more aisy to give powerful magic things and control the consequence and the influence of it ..when you give it to a certain character unsted of a other...
PS. It probably true for a certain kind of players too . not only the character.. .. unsted of a other kind player..heh...We can have a post about
what kind of players we are CALL IT.. What kind of player you are ??? and if peoples are honest, they will probably write interesting stuff.. -
Yer there has been DM loot like that before. Stuff that be OP in some people hands, but not OP in others. Way back in the civil war I had low con paladin/wizard with mass energy resist shield and DR armor…. but she was a front liner with no hp so it was more making her handicap less of a killer, than making her a killing machine.
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I think this is slowly shifting into an argument about loot and who had what and why.
I dont think that people should keep bringing up names of other players just to prove an argument, because this singles those players out in a negative light and this is something which should not occur.Because she is getting mentioned alot (Needlessly) I will speak for her. Erih has earned whatever she got fair and square, after forwarding the story for countless characters and creating fun not only for players but for DMs alike. Please stop mentioning certain players/characters without their consent (Like in Jadeth/Thune case) and focus on the matter at hand.
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That character had about 8 str, and carried LOADS of books around. Like, a STUPID amount of books, that probly weighed about as much as one of those larger mining hauls. that's really all she had in the bag(s). Just books. I don't like getting into specific examples but you brought it up twice so, there you go. In a way, it was a way to get round a mechanical limitation which didn't affect the economy or power level of the server in any way, while allowing the concept to carry all those books.
And yeah, keeping the examples nameless would be just as effective.
I'm not sure the loot discussion is directly connected to the point we were trying to make, which is that if your character does awesome stuff that enhances the server, the kind of things that have kept the server alive for around ten years, then they will be rewarded. So that the server continues to have this kind of thing happening, so it continues to survive.
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ho ok sorry.. ddint want to said something wrong about her.. mY EXEMPLE was made for show the goal of the dms at the end is .. to not unbalance to much if they give powerful magic stuff.. so they will not gone give it to peoples who gone unblance the server with it…I THINK it not a so negative thing to wirte...... and ..if i name characters and write exemple.. is juste for show i ddint take this out of my head.....from no where...and juste write stuff aisy to said but whitout nothing to proov it behind... if you know what i mean...
Sec ..Eril post her stuff on the forum for we can all see it...so it public knowledge....
and for finish.. .. it possible to put 6 book max in a bag..even it 100 weight reduction...who weight 1 lbs aprox each... so as i said in my first post.. it pretty stupid to use a 100 reduction bag for carry 6 books in and it not gone change or unbalance the server... so that why she can have thos kind of things ... probably..
Aneways.. what ever it is.. it not the fault of Erin becose she not the one who give the magic item......
So you make a post for ask us to write stuff about if we think DMS give more attention and advantage to some player unsted of other no ?.. you wish we speak openly ann not stay in the shadow as... Cockroach.... ..
About what keep this server alive or not..
I'm not sure the loot discussion is directly connected to the point we were trying to make, which is that if your character does awesome stuff that enhances the server, the kind of things that have kept the server alive for around ten years, then they will be rewarded. So that the server continues to have this kind of thing happening, so it continues to survive.
Zool.that a other story. i think we can have differents opinions of what or who keep this server alive for so many years... and i dont see what it shoud do with the magic item character can find IG.. There probably alot of players who play here becose of what you think.. but i bet there alot of players who left for the same reasons...i can give names . but i know you dont like it...
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I'd be interested to hear your opinion on what or who keeps the server vibrant.
I believe it's players creating characters that tell excellent compelling stories that intwine a multitude of players and concepts, which is why those characters get rewarded.
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DM loot is probably the single biggest thing that promotes rumors of favoritism.
There should be ways to encourage and reward players without giving them unfair mechanical advantage over others. -
If you think DM loot can truly turn the tide in a PvP match, you're nuts. DM loot shines best when it's used in PvM, not in PvP. I've been in countless scenarios where my PC was looted out in terms of gear (and dm loot) but still lost because I didn't have the right potions or did not use the correct series of brews.
DM loot sometimes is used to address the mechanical (frankly) incompetence of awesome players. Sometimes its simply to reward an interesting concept by addressing an inherent weakness (like DR armor for frontlining wizards, which is solved with a magic weapon spell).
Turn this conversation away from loot and simply accept that DMs are human, they make mistakes, and will favor concepts that are dynamic, risky, and tell and excellent story. If you do not feel like you're getting attention, maybe start using the plot forum? Maybe talk to a DM about what you want to do? They cannot do anything if they never heard of your PC. Why should they do anything for you? Simply because you're a player does not mean you are, god forbid, ENTITLED to attention. That sort of attitude destroyed empires. It can destroy a server as well.
Assume everything that people get is earned and you won't end up feeling bitter/jaded/that the dms are assholes. They aren't.
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@SpiffyHas:
If you think DM loot can truly turn the tide in a PvP match, you're nuts.
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If you do not feel like you're getting attention, maybe start using the plot forum?
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Simply because you're a player does not mean you are, god forbid, ENTITLED to attention. That sort of attitude destroyed empires. It can destroy a server as well.
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Assume everything that people get is earned and you won't end up feeling bitter/jaded/that the dms are assholes. They aren't.I really thought my post was short and absolutely clear. Can't understand how you managed to make so many wrong assumptions from those two lines i wrote and even put in a few personal jabs. :?
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While the above was a little tactless, I don't think there were personal jabs. However, everyone, keep it civil and friendly please.
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I would say that from most others comments, it is not "DM loot" that people see as "favoritism", but "NPC Attention".
I think there has been more mention of "not getting a response" and "being engaged for plots" than there has been concerning "loot".I also think that has a lot to do with two things:
What they have seen you do. (Is this a request for DM/NPC Attention at the very start of something, or has it already been pushed along so others are involved and DM attn is now needed to progress it)Timezone.
Might I suggest that a useful resource might be a list of what DMs generally play what times. That way, if players want to contact a DM concerning the feasability of a a plot under consideration, they could PM or attempt to IRC one in right TZ. Many players would have no idea.
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Might need updating, but…
that should give you a general idea of a few at the least.
Quite honestly though, with me, it's simply a case of if I'm there, I'm there, I don't arrange to play CoA or anything, I just play it when I'm not doing
something else.And yeah, your vastly more likely to get NPC response, if you've already become known through your deeds which didn't involve/need DM help.
Creating an elf and walking up to the hullack on day one and asking to speak to the elves there is unlikely to garner much– unless you have just finished some kind of sweet event in which you got half the server going out adventuring, or having fun in a creative event, as part of a plot/idea/goal/story. then you might.
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DM loot is supposed to give a mechanical advantage. The best dm loot is obtained through A/I, and thats something we feel is perfectly valid, and do so intentionally to encourage such behaviour. Focusing on pushing plots, and creating stories that involve others has always been something the DM Team has felt should offer the greatest IG rewards.
There is nothing "unfair" about rewarding this kind of behaviour when we state upfront that its what we are going to reward. There are several guides on how to pursue this kind of gameplay, and no doubt even more dms, and veteran players willing to offer advice on the matter in irc, and on the forums.
Honestly, and this is not ment to offend anyone, but alot of the players that whine about favortism, have 1) recieved quite a bit of dm love on their current/past characters (but clearly not enough?), or 2) are not as talented storytellers and players as these "dm pets" and instead of looking at what these players are doing, emulating their strenghts and learning from them (Which is btw, what I did after I stopped blaming dms and other players for being unable to get stuff done at the start of my coa career), they decide to grow bitter, rant about favortism, and in general contribute to a acidic atmosphere that like a cancer will only grow until alot of players grow up.
No player is owed anything from an IG perspective. You get what you earn. Its really that simple. The hard truth is that some players are simply better at what coa rewards then others. But there is good news, you too can be as good or even better. The moment you drop any ideas of entitelment, bitterness, unfairness etc, is the moment you can start growing as a player, and have a shot at getting the types of results you want IG.
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Moloch wrote.
I'd hope that makes some sense and clears up that its not a double standard, but just poor communication. The item is FINE, if you've earned it as a reward. It isn't fine as something floating out there to people who didn't actually earn it.
Thats great i accept your POV as a DM.
Now i happen to have a belt of guiding light on a druid character yet the one i got doesn't make you immune to death magic,i accept i didn't do as much as the character with the unnerfed version of the item but the fact is the item was supposed to be nerfed this was an accepted fact by the player base,you could not get something that made you permanently immune to death magic but this PC did he also had alot of other stuff but none of it annoyed me as i figured it was fair,fantastic but fair and all earned,but one character had an item that no one else could have that is to me a double standard.
From my POV.Anyhow like i said it doesn't bother me anymore just figured after reading all this i would add one of the things that has made me view the server and some members of the DM team in a certain way.P.S.The player that had the gear was a truly great player and deserved it there is no question about that.
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We don't have any rule saying a player can't get an item that makes them immune to death magic.
That may be the reason you were annoyed. I would be too if I thought there was a rule against something and the DMs ignored it. However, no rule says we can not give a player a +10 Longsword, and if one day there is a very good reason that convinces the 10+ DM member team to do it–we very well could. It'd certainly be a unique and exceptional situation, and we'd monitor it carefully to ensure it works--but we COULD do it.
So, we certainly can give out items that grant immunity to death magic if we want to as well. Especially considering immunity to death magic isn't a big deal on a server where you do not encounter much death magic.
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We don't have any rule saying a player can't get an item that makes them immune to death magic.
That may be the reason you were annoyed. I would be too if I thought there was a rule against something and the DMs ignored it. However, no rule says we can not give a player a +10 Longsword, and if one day there is a very good reason that convinces the 10+ DM member team to do it–we very well could. It'd certainly be a unique and exceptional situation, and we'd monitor it carefully to ensure it works--but we COULD do it.
So, we certainly can give out items that grant immunity to death magic if we want to as well. Especially considering immunity to death magic isn't a big deal on a server where you do not encounter much death magic.
I believe some players would feel a lot better if loot they obtained isn't taken from them due to ooc reasons but if there is a way found to deal with it ic. For example that this fantastic belt carries a curse, a curse whispered by the dying hero, that is going to haunt its new owner, nerf the belt, make his life a living hell and thus creates more plots and storylines. For myself (and only for myself) I can state that I would be 100% fine with such an approach if it hit one of my characters since it would create fun. And hey, perhaps at the end the player has truly earned that item or perhaps did so great that he gets something that is really useful for his character. Or make it non drop-able to start with?
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DM team deals with ooc issues ooc.
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@Undead:
DM team deals with ooc issues ooc.
I am sorry to state that but it seems that the ooc treatment leads to ooc issues that erupt in x page long forum discussions that do little to inspire intrigue and adventure. I am trying to raise the question if some (certainly not all) ooc issues the DMs notice couldn't be dealt with in a ic way which makes it much more fun for everyone?
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Most people won't find your IC solution posted above "fun" though as a means to resolve an OOC problem.
We did stuff like that in the past, it usually led to "DM attention only is bad" kinds of sentiments. Its always better for us to handle an OOC issue OOC. Usually in situations like this, the issue is the item OOC should have been no_drop but we forgot to make it so. So we just remove it from circulation manually.
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Personally, the only problem I have with DM rewards is that they contribute to an environment where players play to be rewarded. If they get rewards, they are AWESOME. If they don't get rewards, they are DOING IT WRONG. I, as a player, don't care if I get DM rewards or not. I play my characters to explore themes of interest to me and, I hope, of interest to the other players with whom I interact. However, I don't explore those themes in MOVING and SHAKING ways for the most part. Usually, I'm happy with that arrangement.
The only time I am unhappy with that arrangement is when the approach I enjoy is discussed, mostly by other players, as an approach that is somehow "less" than the approach other players enjoy. I also get annoyed when other players try to guide me, through OOC interactions and, even more annoying, IC interactions, down the road of MOVING and SHAKING - as if I there is no way I could enjoy what I enjoy - as if I have to play the game like them to enjoy the game. That's more of a player thing than a DM thing, but I feel like DM rewards contribute to that environment too. It is what it is, though. I guess all I am trying to say is, GET OFF MY BACK, MAAAAAAN. I do what I want.