On Escalation
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Go all in? Believe it necessary? We're talking about two people, who haven't attacked the person in question, who are fighting with their bare hands. In that situation it is unambiguously not necessary. That's the whole point.
Please be reasonable. All that's being asked here is that people exercise some common sense and react to situations semi-appropriately - by not treating all instances of player combat as life or death, and as opportunities to put all those consumables to good use and to achieve the big win. That, I think, we can all agree is a good idea. At least I sure as hell hope we can.
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Ok, yeahcrhis I think you are still missing the point I was trying to get across. If your character started a brawl, they started a pvp event by attacking another character. The fact that you as a player wanted to limit the event to a certain set of conditions may or may not be respected by other characters observing the event. If another character sees the pvp event they may very well decide for IC reasons to move in stop it / join the event. If as a player you arent comfortable with that, there are three easy ways to avoid it I can think of off hand. Hold the brawl in a non-public place where its just you two, if your near a tavern use one of the dueling rings they have, or dont start the pvp event.
As a player I have utilized the above options to good effect and had the events work out fairly well. As far as the rest, all I can say is that as a player if my characters witness a pvp event they will react in a manner that is consistent for them IC. Frankly I am very much of the opinion that each pvp event that occurs outside of a ring / duel format should be taken as a life or death event. You can not predict how other players will react to the situation nor the consequences of winning or losing, its part of what makes pvp so much fun. There is a major risk / reward factor. It's also why starting a pvp event should, in my opinion, be taken fairly seriously (and of course always be IC). As I said above, if you want to limit the conditions on the pvp hold it in a dueling ring. If you start a general brawl, accept that there could be serious consequences if people jump in. In any case, we are probably reaching the point of diminishing returns with this. My last post on the issue, if you dont agree we are going to have to agree to disagree.
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Of course, every instance should be judged on a case by case scenario
And this is why you should get a dm before you start pvp.
They will be able to moderate some actions of onlookers if inappropriate, and certainly provide an objective view of the overall result.
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I just think it would be cool if we played in a setting where characters didn't draw their weapons unless they were prepared to kill somebody with them and bringing a sword to a fistfight was a big freaking deal.
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I had a thug/merc type character that would get drunk and start fights and it is surprising how many jump straight to weapons for the win,not everyone of course mostly those that don't think they should risk losing but if your picking fights with characters much lower level or mechanically weaker then your not really adding to rp more like picking on lowbies.
Also if you do this it was best I found to make the threats hurl the insults and give them a clear chance to back down or run away that way they can leave without any pvp combat just the role play,not everyone is good with the combat or enjoys it mind you if they don't enjoy it or aren't good at it but still stay after you have given them the window set them hostile and beat the crap out of them they had the chance to back out so your being more than fair to them.P.S.Always drop a message on the dm channel saying there could be abit of pvp thats all you have to do,unless your planning on a murder then you have to get one.
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But what if "pansy douche bob" punches, "ninny nelly" in the face and "Joe Whats its", who's sole purpose in life is to beat up whoever hurts "Ninny Nelly" as quickly and effectively as possible does his job?
Its situational methinks, if it makes sense for them, they'll do it.
Remember we're talking about adventurers here, they didn't survive 100 adventures by expecting the guy attacking them to show restraint and fight back with equal restraint.
And their buddies probably saw quite a few friends die because they didn't react fast enough or with enough force, thinking it wasn't as serious as it looked, or wasn't going to get as serious as they thought.
That or the adventurer just wants to smack stuff (as most adventurers do)
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What I am trying to prevent here is a minor incident becoming a violent uproar where a PC can possibly loose his life, supplies, get randomly looted by individuals who are merely preying on the dead, and more.
Spiffy, did that ever happen to you?
Aren't you exaggerating the issue a bit?If another character sees the pvp event they may very well decide for IC reasons to move in stop it / join the event. If as a player you arent comfortable with that, there are three easy ways to avoid it I can think of off hand. Hold the brawl in a non-public place where its just you two, if your near a tavern use one of the dueling rings they have, or dont start the pvp event.
I can add two more ways:
1. Make sure you made it very clear and obvious to both your opponent and bystanders that you're engaging in a non-lethal duel (no, just attacking someone unarmed is not enough) and make sure your opponent actually agrees to it.
2. Make a quick OOC arrangement for the event. Send PMs and wait for the answer, to make sure other players are willing to play along. -
2. Make a quick OOC arrangement for the event. Send PMs and wait for the answer, to make sure other players are willing to play along.
Point two breaks immersion hardcore and can be construed as metagaming. Few OOC limit should be respected in accordance to IC events. The only OOC limits that should be respected are those set by DMs and your own personal ethos. Meaning, if your character wants to honor the IC terms of the duel, then so be it. If the terms were set OOCly, I'll laugh at you and FD your PC if I have DM permission and a suitable enough reason, even if I said "Whatever" to your request to keep it non-FD,
Spiffy, did that ever happen to you?
Aren't you exaggerating the issue a bit?You forget I come from a server where PvP is far more common and much more dire- escalation happens often and holding a discussion on it is productive for all involved. Simply because it hasn't (to my knowledge) occurred to me doesn't mean I cannot recognize the signs that can easily lead to it (and I have). Keep it in mind when you play your character. I bet even a Gargosian knows that there is a time to hold back and enjoy a brawl rather than be all hands in and go nuts. While CoA is different and the level of cuddliness is higher, even teddy bears can hold daggers to the spleen.
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@SpiffyHas:
Point two breaks immersion hardcore and can be construed as metagaming.
Still better than sending PMs to people after the event and saying they handled it all lame.
@SpiffyHas:
Few OOC limit should be respected in accordance to IC events. The only OOC limits that should be respected are those set by DMs and your own personal ethos. Meaning, if your character wants to honor the IC terms of the duel, then so be it. If the terms were set OOCly, I'll laugh at you and FD your PC if I have DM permission and a suitable enough reason, even if I said "Whatever" to your request to keep it non-FD,
I don't know why you would ever do that. Aren't we supposed to be friendly and cooperating OOCly, even when playing a douchebag character?
@SpiffyHas:
Keep it in mind when you play your character.
I suspected this thread was somehow connected to that incident in Gilmore's tower. So why don't we, for a change, study a real example of "Escalation" in the thread?
A rude and violent Tough Guy Joe has a heated argument with Stout Dwarf Moe after the quest. He then proceeds to pummeling him with his fists. This fight doesn't look like a friendly brawl and Moe is not explicitly enjoying it. A mage, who's name is apparently Pansy Douche Bob, casts a hold spell on the attacker. But as Joe shrugs it off, Bob instead renders Moe invisible. Everyone calms down. The end.
Was Bob at fault here? Was the conflict escalated out of proportion? Is it an OOC punishment of Joe's magnificent IC badassery? Or is Joe just annoyed that he can't always have everything his way? -
I purposefully did not reference IG events so as to not point fingers. Your PC was a member of a DM faction who controls a district and enforces the local law. My tell to you was a reminder- "Set hostiles before engaging in PvP." it's a courtesy issue and irrelevant to the discussion.
Your interference was warranted and proper. If I felt like it was unwarranted, I would diligently speak to the Dm crew instead of taking it before the mass audience that is CoA.
This post was not attack against you or anyone, it's a general reminder for people to keep a level head, it's easy to get carried away by events your PC would not normally involve themselves in. I have a bad habit of promoting ideas in a less than diplomatic fashion, and I understand if you saw it as a personal attack.
Rule of thumb is- if you aren't involved, then don't get involved in PvP unless there is a really good reason to get involved!
Note: I edited this post to detail an event more soundly.
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many times it is down to variables that we do not know and have no control of.
sometimes someone is having a bad day and decides to take it out in game, sometime there can be a language barrier, English is the main language of arabel, but is by no means the only one spoken by the players and in some cases it is not even their native language, i have see this cause problems occasionally…. ..especially when coming to loggerheads with some player who's character is a "no nonsense tough guy"
myself i allow myself to go with the situations when they develop, depending upon the character i am playing, i will either flee and hide, or try to defuse the situation if it directly involves me, if defusing cannot be done there are always alternatives, many long term which add to the realism of the game for me, and hopeful for the other person(s) involved
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@SpiffyHas:
2. Make a quick OOC arrangement for the event. Send PMs and wait for the answer, to make sure other players are willing to play along.
Point two breaks immersion hardcore and can be construed as metagaming. Few OOC limit should be respected in accordance to IC events. The only OOC limits that should be respected are those set by DMs and your own personal ethos. Meaning, if your character wants to honor the IC terms of the duel, then so be it. If the terms were set OOCly, I'll laugh at you and FD your PC if I have DM permission and a suitable enough reason, even if I said "Whatever" to your request to keep it non-FD,
I like point two. I think of it as two actors setting up a scene.
Laughing and setting someone to full damage kind of sounds like a lousy way to pay someone back for trying to oocly set up a scene with you to entertain folks.
I think that behaving badly to your online buds in the name of your personal "immersion " seems a bit out of whack with how we generally like to carry on here. I'd like to hear a dms thoughts on that statement.
Sensei
End transmission
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Laughing and setting someone to full damage kind of sounds like a lousy way to pay someone back for trying to oocly set up a scene with you to entertain folks.
I think that behaving badly to your online buds in the name of your personal "immersion " seems a bit out of whack with how we generally like to carry on here.
Seems you have things right in my book, Sensei. Nothing wrong with courtesy to your fellow companions on this server and lots wrong with discourtecy.
Respect goes an aweful long way.
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So basically, if you have no reason to get involved, dont, and if you do, by all means?
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So basically, if you have no reason to get involved, dont, and if you do, by all means?
No.
If you have a reason, then get involved. If it would be IC, then get involved. If it will make a great story, then get involved. Having said that, consider how you get involved, and get involved at an appropriate level, and most importantly, respect your fellow players and work to enhance their enjoyment; for in doing so, you will gain more enjoyment.