Gone with the Win - CoA & PvP
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6 pages?
This is some solid posting.
Dond for DM tbh.
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Personally, one of the biggest problems these days seems to be transparenty, and frustration.
We are what… 100 people left? About 20% of them being dms, or have been dms but didnt want to dm anymore.We all speak of V5 like it is some sort of sancturary, that if we can just reach it, all will be good. Problem is, we players have no clue how it goes in the V5 department. I talk to many dms, and I have NO clue, if we are 6 months off, 8 months off, or 1 month off. And that lack of transparenty makes me believe we are too far off for the Community to reach port without having run out of food on the ship.
Make a V5 announcement Section.
January: We have made the first few steps, story wise. Mostly done all the Behind the scenes stuff.
March: Things are moving on. Abby and Bacon have been busy scripting, while Polaris and EoF are busting their chops with the faction write ups. Count is busy building areas.
June: We are about 50% done before we can air the V5 Beta. Its been decided that there will be a wipe, but good news, Thunder and EoF have decided to make the last few months fun, by rounding up old plots, and will be focused mainly on making the last months of V4 fun.
July: We need some dedicated storytellers, to populate the first factions. Send us some ideas of an alignment and class you want to play when we launch, and a dm will contact you if you fit into a faction, or what you could do.-Thats- Transparenty. Dms are the Cocks in the hen house. And these days, because of lack of transparenty and due to heavy disguntedness, we are all running around like headless chickens.
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@Broken:
Of course it's feasible Count, you just don't want to do it.
Yes, and that is the same thing. It's what I mean. What's being suggested (a clean forum for plots where they are thoroughly detailed) is something that already happens. The problem is having a DM pick up when another leaves. That is not something I would want to happen on a steady base, nor it can be a permanent solution. I personally tried running a plot I thought had been left rotting even though I had no interest in it, just out of pure sense of responsibility (the RH vs Legion war), trying to give it a personal touch to make it my own, and I ended up taking a leave from CoA. Having a DM tell a story that is not his own is not something that works. Mind, it can work (Duke picking up the closure of the EO), but not always. Even just closing a plot can require a degree of effort that no DM may be willing to spare. What you are suggesting can work on a case by case basis, not on a permanent one. Because as players play what they like, DMs too run what they like. Having a DM run something they have no love for, simply because of a "misplaced" sense of duty, only leads to disaster.
Concerning v5, we have explained there is no time table because not even we are aware of when it will be ready. That's why we have asked people to stop thinking about it as some kind of panacea. It could be one year away, or more. Even explaining what we are currently doing or what stage of development we are in cannot be useful.
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If you want to know what we are currently working on because you want to gauge how far v5 is, well as I said not even us working on it have any clue, let alone people who are not involved. It can only be misleading.
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If you want to know what we are currently working on because you feel the need to know we are indeed working on v5, I can garantee the v5 forum is quite bursting with activity.
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What other reason is there?
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@The:
Because as players play what they like, DMs too run what they like. Having a DM run something they have no love for, simply because of a "misplaced" sense of duty, only leads to disaster.
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This is coming from a guy that turns wrenches for a living, so it's going to be simple and to the point -
On the subject of dms taking up orphaned plots, why not just run shorter plots that don't take so long? It would take a lot less commitment from the dms to do this, and reduce the likelihood of dead end stories along with player frustration. Sometimes I think our dms take on too much. I know you guys aren't getting a payday for any of your work here. I wont speak for everyone, but I personally appreciate your efforts for doing what pretty much amounts to a thankless job. CoA in my opinion needs to be reduced into manageable, bit sized pieces (plot-wise) so that the dms dont get overwhelmed by the enormity of mega plots that get out of hand.
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Shorter plots are a possibility, one that I can guarantee is used fairly frequently. Unless a DM believes he has the time to run a long plot, he will not start one. Unfortunately what we believe and what happens do not always match.
There is a downside though in shorter plots, one that can be correctly summarized in a sentence that pops up from time to time in several threads about the condition of the server. "I feel nothing is happening". Long plots tend to involve more people, tend to have a bigger impact, tend to sign the advance of the storyline of the whole community.
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@The:
There is a downside though in shorter plots, one that can be correctly summarized in a sentence that pops up from time to time in several threads about the condition of the server. "I feel nothing is happening"..
A long plot with no -perceived- activity, especially if its something that has 1-2 core PCs, who see activity, and 7-10 non-core PCs, who dont see any activity also generates that same sentence. But I would think it makes the DM+core PCs very frustrated to see that sentence if their plot is mentioned as a example when they ARE working on it. Short/Small plots have a "smaller frustration impact". Just a thought.
Also, what about having most "large" plots be ones that are done jointly by 2+ DMs ?
I'd think that "DM-shared-plots" give the DMs might be somewhat more fun for you (DMs) also.. then again I tend to be a collaborative planner as opposed to individual, so maybe that can skew my thinking. -
Forgive me if this is too simplistic, but that is just how I am.
My take on the plots thing is:
1: DMs are players too, they need to have fun.
2: Long/Big Plots are needed for change.
3: Most Big plots stall when DM needs to cut back hours or leave.
4: Small plots are easier for DMs .
5: Not all DMs Like all the plotsMy response:
- DMs concoct Big plot story arcs in their forums together.
- Map is made for how to get from begining and end including minor and major destinations {plot points} Including some wrong turns and some repeat locations
- Major plot points are taken up by DMs that want them and have time to see them done. No introduction to player base till plots are spoken for.
- Smaller points on the Map can be taken up by any DM.
- Any plot a DM want's to take on outside the Story Arcs is theirs to take, but they must handle it on their own as a one or two session thing, or give it the Big Plot treatment.
- Exceptions may happen, but they are exceptions not the common thing.
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Oh, and to be clear, I am happy with how things are now, how they were when I got here, and in most likelihood, with how they will be. Just offering a option.
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BG hits a few keynotes on transparency.
-Plotwise, if the PCs are pursuing a plot that absolutely no interest is found to even do a quick-fix on, tell the OOC players it, or if they're running 200 mph down the wrong road to end it.
-Too much build/scripting stress, get players to do it for you. To borrow some bluntness, this ins't 2003-4 anymore. NWNs playerbase is mostly dedicated players and there's a hell of a lot less random script kids/exploiters/etc around. Adding to that, the modules features haven't been cutting edge since then, there is in honesty, nothing worth stealing that can't be readily pulled from the Vault, especially with the burden of a cobweb of code piled up over 8 years. (Nevermind that the modules leaked out seven or eight times in the interim)
V5, the timeline of it doesn't really matter no. What is of such critical interest is the elements of it. Off the top is whether it will attempt to maintain continuity with v4 (wipe notwithstanding), and if so, what elements are crossing over. If a person spends the intervening 4/6/8/a year months pursuing the banishment of the Shadovar, to find out suddenly that v5 is CIty of Shadovar and all their effort was pointless and DMs could've told them this months before, they're going to be rightfullly angry. Theres not that huge playerbase to start causing such unrest, and theres a lot more competitive options out there for people to play then back in the day. Adding to that is potentially recruiting interested people to aid in the mechanical development (or even setting development) will drastically reduce the workload, benefitting both versions (since it'd free up time to DM v4) and cutting down Dm stress.
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I'd like to see player's be more of the writers of the story actually with DM's there to assist and challenge them. That way if a pc drops off the map people just move on. Also give players more opportunities to actually run the city not just conquer it. Have elections for 3 council positions open to PCs which rotate every 3 months so that way if players really wanna aim for that they can without these endless faction war plots.
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Yeah, I've never seen the lure myself. You become King, but you get immediately NPCed cause thats beyond the PC scope. Being able ot occupy an important sub-seat as an active person would be much more satisfying. (And most NPCed have either lapsed into doing nothing, or become odd shallow representations, compared to when played by the people who actually crafted and developed them)
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@Black:
Yeah, I've never seen the lure myself. You become King, but you get immediately NPCed cause thats beyond the PC scope. Being able ot occupy an important sub-seat as an active person would be much more satisfying. (And most NPCed have either lapsed into doing nothing, or become odd shallow representations, compared to when played by the people who actually crafted and developed them)
Well, I'd imagine at least with being NPC'd you get to somewhat choose the way that you go out (at least when you're playing the character). There is at least some feeling of control in the whole mess of letting go, especially if it was a long run.
As to the NPCs lasping into doing nothing, I'm afraid that is one of the most true things I've read on this forum. I'm not aware of any NPC'd Player Character that ever amounted to much after they were retired to inanimate status. C'est la vie.
Heck, I don't even know what happened to mine.