Gone with the Win - CoA & PvP
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If V5 is going to be successful, regardless of what the DMs do, the players have to figure out how to conflict with each other without poking everyone in the eye with their genitals so they can feel good about themselves. Feel good about yourself because of how you furthered your story and the other guy's story at the same time without cutting either off mid-stream. Feel good about yourself because you're having a good time with your friends, not because you're crushing the pathetic noob on the other side of the internet.
Really, if its all about you crushing noobs, play Call of Duty or some NWN arena server. CoA "WAS" about stories. I'm not sure what is is about anymore.
This
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Really, if its all about you crushing noobs, play Call of Duty or some NWN arena server. CoA "WAS" about stories. I'm not sure what is is about anymore.
I don't think after a 3 years hiatus you can make such a claim. I'm having more fun now than I was in the "good ol' days". Story telling has been a larger componet than what I saw in the past. No more market sitting, iron ore running, lesbian elves rp (wouldn't mind that coming back actually).
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I can understand what you mean, aldrien, but I will actually put my vote behind what youfired just said. The disturbing elements have been removed from the server, so the focus is now solely on stories. I do, however, agree that the way some of these stories play out are not optimal. Some people tend to be a bit quick about their FDing, which is sad since it ends conflicts, interactions and fun prematurely. But let us be honest; even back in the "good old days", the version you portray was not the norm for the majority of players, it was for the dedicated and experienced roleplayers.
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Just for the record.
Imho CoA is by a massive margin a better server now than v3.
Faction law was too strong and the in crowd was too exclusive compared to the openess of the server now. DMs in general does seem more near and approacable now.
Overall the setting is more flexible and there is a sense that you can actually affect the setting. The FD disc will always be there but it is not that different overall from disc back then. Some complain now and some did then.
CoA rocks! Just keep it rocking!
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i disagree with Aldriens naysayers, i agree the server still has its good points
but to say it is better now than then is discounting many of his well thought out points and observations
his discussion was rational and his points need to be considered
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I can understand what you mean, aldrien, but I will actually put my vote behind what youfired just said. The disturbing elements have been removed from the server, so the focus is now solely on stories.
I've been playing up till a few months ago.
I agree very much with aldriwn, and while you are correct, the focus may be on "stories' I see a VAST difference.
before, ther stories were a intertwined story of drives and motives by different characters. The story was woven by how they interacted. No one know how it woudl turn out, just as someone in RL doesnt know how their "story" turns out. if something in RL happens, quite often your CHANGE your "goals" etc to suit the changing world. That happened "back then" in arabel, also.Now, however, and for the last few years, it seems that "MY GOALS" and "MY STORY" are the overreding drive.
All that matters is accomplishing the goals/story that you as a Player wanted that "toon" to do.
I use the word "toon" (that someone else used for character) on purpose. Because thats how a lot of them come across, as a "toon" with a script of goals/story/etc as if your watching someone in a show. As opposed to A Character, with a life, whose drives, etc might be changed by teh changing world aaround them.Instead of Arabel being a story with a hundred interwiened theards weaving one vast story, it's a hundred individual stories, driven by unseen gods. (Players)
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I agree games. There is a lot of personal focus these days, but it has been for a long time.
I think you are painting the current situation a little more black than it deserves and have a slightly rosey view of the past, tinted with nostalgia. I won't blame you for it. Both the old days and the new days have their own qualities. Style of play and style of plotting has changed, and that is only natural over the course of ten years. Some might think it has changed for the better, others not.
I find it strange that everyone has this perception that every PvP ends in FD nowdays. I think this is sad, since it breaks the mentality of people and its not true. How many of you here have been in PvP leading to FD outside major events lately? Not very many. Yes there has been FDing and some of it prematurely that has been getting a LOT of attention by the involved players (which should usually be dismissed as post-loss rage, IMO), but this does not mean that ALL PvP now ends with FD for this is simply not true at all.DMs style of telling stories and plotting has changed, the playerbase has changed, and everyone adapts to the new environment in different ways. We still have people who love fighting each other to the death and those who just wants to go hunt for treasure or sell potions in the market. They are all still here, and the very few engaging in FD action and afterwards whining about it are destroying the mood and mentality of the playerbase, leading everyone to think that you have to be prepared to die if you as much as hurl an insult at anyone. I have had lots of discussions, threats on my life, threatened others and so forth and I don't think I've ever even came to blows with any of them. So many people wanted us in Candlekeep dead once Lyss was out of the bag, the MG most of all. I was a lv 4 rogue with 10 Con/8 Str during the entire time with no healing on hand and very little resources. Possibly the easiest target on the server. I never snuck around, I was never invisible (since I couldn't), I was never in the sewers yet there was not one person who actually tried to kill me, nor even beat me up. People wanted to, but they did not.
Its sad that people think the server has turned into a world of "ME Me Me!!!" and "Kill kill kill!", because that is not true.
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Also, just to be fair to the new vs the old…
Amelia, in her 4 month life, will usually be considered pvp heavy. She killed 1 person herself, had 1 other person killed. She fought others perhaps 3 times all in all? And she was killed -once-.To "compare". Height of V3, I had a character, Rebecca Kelten, / Sasha of Westgate (Yes, she had her name changed.) She was around for all of 6 month i think. She was at the time, seen as one of the PvP heavy characters, since she was a Harper.
She and her partner in Crime, Cordova, were responsible for 25 kills.(Had to look it up).
So to compare, the PVP levels of the day havent gone up insanely. In fact, if anything, there is far less Full Deaths.
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I agree. I simply cannot understand why people seem to insist so much that the win mentality is everywhere these days because it's simply not true. I just do not understand it. I've been playing on and off for 8 years and i just don't see any different mentality than before in the playerbase. I think people are seeing things through rose colored glasses.
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I agree. I simply cannot understand why people seem to insist so much that the win mentality is everywhere these days because it's simply not true. I just do not understand it. I've been playing on and off for 8 years and i just don't see any different mentality than before in the playerbase. I think people are seeing things through rose colored glasses.
Almost 100% agreement.
Jus that:
CoA has never been better!
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Another prominent player said the exact same thing a few months ago and than shortly after he ragequitted. go figure
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This reminds me so much of World of warcraft forums. So many people keeping saying "this expansion sucks, last one was so awesome and next one is going to be even better!".
Next expansion comes: "this expansion sucks, last one was so awesome and next one is going to be even better!".
It's a vicious cycle. Some people will always look at the past with rose tinted glasses and forget to focus on the present and insist it sucks.
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Except there are those of us who were actually present during those good old days and while certainly v3 wasn't perfect there was a lot more focus on storytelling and character development than we have now. The trend has been either doomsday plot #421 or #FactionWar328
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As I was saying in previous posts, V3 had the benefit of a common goal or enemy for all characters to enjoy - IE: Clar Banda, Threats to the City ect. That was mainly because each Noble House, although different in their approaches and philosophys had the collective goal of protecting the City and consolidating their power within it. This allowed more character-based development and interaction as well as avoiding (Most of the time) that doomsday plot or a faction war every five minutes thats become so.. boring.. as the year has went on for V4.
A shitton was introduced, nothing was settled, everythings up in the air.
A perfect medium for me, would be V3's focus and V4's willingness to change according to player action.
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@Broken:
As I was saying in previous posts, V3 had the benefit of a common goal or enemy for all characters to enjoy - IE: Clar Banda, Threats to the City ect. That was mainly because each Noble House, although different in their approaches and philosophys had the collective goal of protecting the City and consolidating their power within it. This allowed more character-based development and interaction as well as avoiding (Most of the time) that doomsday plot or a faction war every five minutes thats become so.. boring.. as the year has went on for V4.
A shitton was introduced, nothing was settled, everythings up in the air.
A perfect medium for me, would be V3's focus and V4's willingness to change according to player action.
Ditto. Also factions were more like resources for character's to tell their stories rather than being the actual focus.
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@Broken:
As I was saying in previous posts, V3 had the benefit of a common goal or enemy for all characters to enjoy - IE: Clar Banda, Threats to the City ect. That was mainly because each Noble House, although different in their approaches and philosophys had the collective goal of protecting the City and consolidating their power within it.
I'd highlight this as one of v4s main issues. The factions all seem to be in absolute denial about threats to the city, literally completely screwing each other over time and time again when it comes to things that should in theory create a unified, if tension-filled response. DeSchurr might think Fezznick was a bunch of weaklings bound by ludicrous rules, and Fezznick might find DeSchurr to be uncouth barbarians, and they might both hate Bhaliirs schemy nature and Thonds pretension to nobility, but if Grodd (for instance) came knocking on their door, they'd all line up to fight it.
Which I can really only trace to the apparent OOC push to conflict.
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very true…i even remember being on major events where deshurr, fezznick and bhaliir retainers fought side by side along with thays, war wizards and purple dragons.
many of those groups did murder members from each others factions, but when a danger to the city reared its ugly head they all joined forces to deal with it (till the civil war where the city fragmented) after that point the major events seem to have pc's versus pc's now (not necessarily a bad thing, both types of events have their down sides, and positive)
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@Broken:
As I was saying in previous posts, V3 had the benefit of a common goal or enemy for all characters to enjoy - IE: Clar Banda, Threats to the City ect. That was mainly because each Noble House, although different in their approaches and philosophys had the collective goal of protecting the City and consolidating their power within it..
Excellent example of this that I recall being on the receiving end of during the Tallassan/Redshield plot line. One of the junior Purple Dragon Scouts had gone on a recon mission that ended up killing some civilians or something in a little town called Killgrave. It was a disaster and fueled some anti-crown propaganda that was going on in Arabel. My character, a Purple Dragon, organized a relief effort to go to the town, including a sizeable donation that my character and several other PDs put together to help out and restore the peace.
When my character arrived, he was forbidden entry. A noble retainer, I think of House Bhallir, took charge of the situation upon entering the town, and promptly took credit for the entire relief effort in the name of his House alone. He was a last minute entry to it that was looking for opportunities to exploit the situation and fully did so.
In the end, the relief supplies got to the needy people and he got to spread some free good will for his boss while sticking it to the PDs who his boss was not a huge fan of, for many good reasons.
common enemy was still Redshield and the Talassans with plenty of chances to be a complete butthead and screw other people over. It was well played. I was ICly livid and OOCly had to send a "nicely played" tell to the player in question.
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I think what would help stabilize the faction situation is to give the current factions a role pertaining how it functions relevant to the city. Make that it's primary focus instead of worrying about conflict as that can arise by itself. Let's demonstrate what this would look like.
Sheriffs - Solving crimes that go on within the city walls pretty much self explanatory.
Red Harts - Standing Army in charge of protecting Arabel from outside threats like the Purple Dragons were before them.
Mages Guild - Researching and discovering new magical lore to benefit Arabel while using this to expand their influence on the city.
Company of the Gear - Innovators who come up with inventions whose goal is to break Arabel's dependency on magic. Great potential for a rivalery with the Mages Guild here.
The only faction I can't see fitting into this is the Forsaken Legion as they are pretty much big baddie necromancers who were meant to provide an antithesis to the Red Harts. Use them as a common enemy that all the factions can unite against. The point is that V4 is gonna be here for some time and its clear that a good amount of the playerbase is tired of faction wars and the longer it contiunes to be the focus the less interested people are gonna have in playing the server. -
@Black:
@Broken:
As I was saying in previous posts, V3 had the benefit of a common goal or enemy for all characters to enjoy - IE: Clar Banda, Threats to the City ect. That was mainly because each Noble House, although different in their approaches and philosophys had the collective goal of protecting the City and consolidating their power within it.
I'd highlight this as one of v4s main issues. The factions all seem to be in absolute denial about threats to the city, literally completely screwing each other over time and time again when it comes to things that should in theory create a unified, if tension-filled response. DeSchurr might think Fezznick was a bunch of weaklings bound by ludicrous rules, and Fezznick might find DeSchurr to be uncouth barbarians, and they might both hate Bhaliirs schemy nature and Thonds pretension to nobility, but if Grodd (for instance) came knocking on their door, they'd all line up to fight it.
Which I can really only trace to the apparent OOC push to conflict.
I agree with most of this, except the last sentence.
. I think the "lack of common goals/enemies" is a CAUSE of why there seems to be unconnected stories, as I described.
I don't think it's due to a push to conflict. Rather, I think it -may- have to do with an apparent shift to DMs perhaps wanting to support a larger number of player/faction plots (supporting the players doing awesome) as opposed to DMs creating fewer plots and dragging players into them.