Evil Clerics
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i read the post about how to role play a cleric with interest. i have atempted to roleplay but…its strikes me that certain questions should be treated with contempt, namely attempts to discover who you worship. While on the one hand it is desirable to spread the message...it is not so desirable to be hunted down for following a god that is evil.
I am interested in how other players portray their clerics who follow evil gods
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All evil clerics i've seen here so far were very open about gods they worshipped. And city authorities seemed to be ok with that too.
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There are no religions that are illegal. Some of the rituals these clerics perform may be illegal though, so they keep those secret. But few keep their patron secret, unless that's part of their dogma. Their god wants people to know of them, and worship them.
You'll have a lot more fun if you tell the paladin your a follower of Bane, trust me.
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One way to approach this is to give your cleric a nice CHA score (and perhaps a few points in persuade), and then determine a way to make the god in question's dogma appeal to those not of that Faith. Here is an example I saw once utilized for Bane.
The cleric named Bane the "Lord of Men" and came up with a dogma (it was Bane's dogma just with a slight twist) that supported humans raising themselves into an Empire. The cult put their efforts into foreign conquest and becoming valuable to the local authorities. They then moved to pursuing currently known criminals. Once their badass reputation was established and they were viewed as useful to the IC characters, they worked to gain enough influence to start changing laws to a more pro Bane point of view. This is only one example, but it was a neat way to go about it. Of course sometimes it is fun to be the overtly horrible evil cleric roaming around the sewers, but other times its fun to play the cleric with a more subtle approach to spreading their god's dogma / point of view.
Also, when coming up with these concepts it helps to think about why your character holds that particular faith. Again in the case of Bane, why do they follow such a Tyrant God? Especially in Arabel where they could theoretically follow any deity they wanted once they reached the city. It helps if the backstory reason is a bit deeper than "because he is a badass". Lets take Bane for example, random character follows Bane because of a horrible incident in his past. He was raised in a farmland with a loving family, all was good until a tribe of goblins moving through the area ransacked the farm for what small valuables and food stuffs was stored there and killed some of the characters family. A passing cleric of Bane (Dreadlord) hunted down the goblins and slaughtered the tribe, gaining revenge for the slain members of the characters family. Upon seeing this the character bends knee before the Dreadlord and swore an oath of loyalty to Bane and to impose an iron law on any land the character traveled in so that no other family would ever suffer as his did. With this concepts / backstory it is much easier to relate to other characters and perhaps even convince them of your point of view.
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For a lot of evil clerics is pretty easy to be open about the faith, especially if you spin it that your gods a good guy to have on your side against all those orcs and goblins out there.
Try researching a player group called The Red Moon, a highly successfully Malarite cult if you want some tips on how its done.
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Very few people see evil gods as, well, 'evil' but as holding dominion over part of their lives.
Hell, Malar is 'evil' but I doubt 90% of his followers see him as such.
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As very few people (character?) would title himself evil. Human soul has a tendency to justify committed actions.
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As very few people (character?) would title himself evil. Human soul has a tendency to justify committed actions.
The difference is in the Forgotten Realms evil is a fact there are gods of evil and people that worship them know they are evil and that they will go to hell(alignment dependant) for it,most are not thinking they are doing good by doing evil they know it's evil but it is the choice they have made and the god they serve.
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Well.. that's simply the most irritating thing about the FR.
I mean.. I want to roleplay human beings. Real feelings, ect. But this way it can't be real, as human is a different thing there. I tend to ignore this fact. -
Why choosing to serve an evil purpose doesn't sound realistic to you? Some people believe in "necessary evil", some actually enjoy being evil, some are batshit crazy.
Some RL criminals i've talked to said something like "i knew i was doing an evil thing, but i had no choice." so circumstances are also a decisive factor in many cases. -
Clerics must play up the dogma either in word or deed (preferably both) no matter who is around you.
Other PCs don't like it, then smite them (Talos), work to assassinate them (Cyric), subdue them into submission (Bane), hunt them down and make them pay (Malar)
etc etc etc
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My only evil cleric was an "in-your-face, this is who I worship, and if you dont at least tithe or pray, Auril will kick your ass" kind of person. Openly preaching, actively recruiting. Secretly doing rituals. (And to top it off, she was a tiefling, so she radiated evil - yet it didnt put too many people off)
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I don't think you go to hell for performing evil deeds. It's not "hell" as intended in the catholic tradition. You go to hell if you sell your soul.
Also, there is a difference between evil/good from the "world" point of view and evil/good from the human point of view. You can do an act the Forgotten Realms identify as evil and still believe you are doing a good thing. For example you receive the usual threat from random villain #32 "kill that guy, or I will slaughter these ten children". Leaving all other options aside, you can kill the guy, performing what for the Realms is an evil act (murder) and still believe you did a good thing, saving those ten children. In the end FR's point of view and characters' point of view differ.
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Even though Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic and Neutral exist both as concepts and as truisms in the DnD universe (because of spells that affect only certain alignments or otherwise detect them), most people still do not take those alignments at face value, usually just players. A paladin responsible for unleashing a great evil by destroying another is considered a villain by most (if not all), while the scheming mastermind who has endorsed assassinations and cover-ups of terrible deeds in order to ensure the safety and prosperity of his city and his people, will be adored by all, and rightly so (think Cassiel).
Even a cleric of Cyric can easily find his way into good favor if he's open. Seriously. v2 had Freit, a cleric of Cyric, who was public and permitted to preach by the War Wizards because of clever lawyering; she proclaimed Cyric to be a God of Ultimate Freedoms.
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No reason why your cleric cannot damn people to hell for not worshiping your god.
It's not as if the afterlife is 100% understood!
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Try to make it realistic. The whole Joker act, where you are evil for the sake of being it, is very hard to pull off, and the times its been done well on CoA can be counted on one, at most, two hands. Its high goal, and the chance of failing horribly is vast.
However, if you make your character realistic, you will find that your mind starts to invent reasons for doing what you are doing IG all on its own. "The Bane Dreadlord, who believes human beings do not posses the restraint to be allowed free will, and therefore wishes to shepherd the flock to protect them from themselves", is a shit load more interesting, than the "FEAR BANE, because I said so" cleric, who only picked say Velsharoon or Cyric because of the domains, and not because they have a wicked idea for a concept.The above mentioned Cleric, could come off as actually caring, "merciful to a point", friendly, and helpful, making people hating you a hell of alot harder. He does what he believes is best. He is dependable, because he follows his strict code of conduct. He may even always have a small bag of sweets for the children he passes by. But when someone threatens his plans of protecting the people against their own moral flaws, or when someone breaks his own ethics, be it a criminal, a Chaotic Good freedom fighter, whatever, he is ruthless to the point of bone shaking scary. He will rip out your heart, he will make an example of his enemies, he will torture when it is needed, but when that orc hoarde arrives at the gates, he is at the front line, leading his troops to ruthless, no prisoner victory.
Break down the dogma or idea of the god you wish to worship into one or two word concepts.
Malar is the Hunt. Sure he likes to hunt and eat elves, but he is the hunt, and feeds people.
Cyric, is the god of utter freedom, from society, from moral compasses, from the law.
Shar is the goddess of Loss, Bane is Structure, Order, Mask is Wealth, Talos is destruction. Once you have done that, then find a human, almost morale idea of why one should worship your god. Shar may seek the world end, and her worshippers enhance their strength by sacricifing babies, but you also care for the ones who have felt loss, and help them overcome it. Talos protects you from destruction, and gives you the strength to overcome anything.That, IMo, is the way to play an evil cleric. Pyatt Pree, the most infamous cleric of CoA, sought immortality through service with Velsharoon. But he was also an actual "nice guy, who almost never broke his word". He had nice "hello chats" with clerics of Lathander before he went on his way.
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O'louth hit the nail on the head.
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@SpiffyHas:
O'louth hit the nail on the head.
+1
Always have a internal logic that makes sense for your evil cleric. Evil for the giggles rarely works too well for a pc concept.Also if you look at the evil gods most of them do have a angle that could work within a mostly good aligned group. Talos destroys things, Bane is fear and can make you unbreakable or terrorise your foe. Auril and Umberlee can keep you safe when your in those domains and Lovatar can make you strong enough to wade through the harshest battles.
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@O'louth:
Try to make it realistic. The whole Joker act, where you are evil for the sake of being it, is very hard to pull off, and the times its been done well on CoA can be counted on one, at most, two hands. Its high goal, and the chance of failing horribly is vast.
Even the Joker isn't evil for the sake of it, once you dig deeper. It may seem that way, but the Joker is evil actual for the sake of proving that there's nothing wrong with him. Although the details depend on continuity (Jack Nicholson's Napier had Batman to blame, whereas Heath Ledger's or the one from The Killing Joke had a less-defined past), he went mad after something horrible happened to him. However, it is his view that anyone who, like him, has "one bad day" will wind up as insane as he is.
That's why he does horrible things: to prove that after having something horrible inflicted upon them, people will show themselves to be no better than he is, thus vindicating his actions. This is also why he's such a fierce opponent to the Batman: being a bulwark of principles, he just won't crack the way the Joker wants him to. And it's why the Joker repeatedly tries to get the Batman to kill him, while, himself, always sparing him: his greatest victory would not be killing Batman, it would be turning the Batman into a killer, even at the cost of his own life, and prove he's no better.I point this out because it makes a perfect illustration of the fact that every good villain, even the ones that don't seem to at first glance, need an internal logic that makes their actions seem sensible and morally defensible. At some point, you can almost empathize with a man who's willing to get killed just to prove he's still a normal human being.
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Adventuring Garb: Priests of Mask are encouraged to hide their true nature and masquerade as other priests or commoners. Normal dress for clerics of Mask is similar to that of any merchant, craftsperson, or adventurer in the area or similar to that of any armored battle cleric or itinerant adventuring cleric of any faith. Specialty priests of Mask usually dress as thieves in leather or other light armor or assume the guise of typical peasants one might meet on any town’s or village’s streets.
just copied that from wiki, supports my original intention for the priest. i wil pretend to be good priest unless i am with rouges