Floundering.
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What makes you think that?
I think it's more an appearance… I mean to be honest, especially with these 'Huge server changing events' like the Legion take over then Easthaven taking over, it doesn't really change a whole hell of a lot. But then you see the Devil Dragon taking over crag and WOAH holy crap. we don't have Purple Dragons there now, we have undead and monsters and ahhhh... the people who swore to protect us when they took over aren't doing shiznit... Idk, that seems to be the way the commoners would probably see it. I mean yes, Bloodstones are outlawed again! yay... We had that with the PDs... and the Legion.... and the Redharts...
Individually, it's a good goal for a law enforcer/ goodly char. For the normal adventurers its like... Okay... Now how is this going to be enforced?
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Look, ´neither myself or Lisa are complaining about "lacking dm attention".
Team Good has had more dm involvement than they could handle really. I know everyone of "our team" believes this. We have had so much help, we have levels, we have loot, we have dm support.
That said, things have become less amusing. And I honestly cant say why.
Whether it is the lack of progress, our inability to goal set, the stress of being an exile, the constant hunts and blurry line between IC and OOC hatred some of our enemies shoot our way. No clue.
Hence, why I hope some contructive ideas can come of this thread.
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When I log on as a DM, I spend a few minutes flicking through the players to see where they are.
I seem to see much of Team Good in Inns and bases talking about what they plan to do and I see Team evil out somewhere in the underdark, in a crypt somewhere, in the wilds or on a scripted quest.
I can do a whole heap more for a group of players who are out doing something, anything, than with players who are sat talking. I don't really care what the players are doing, really, I can just do so much more, like spice, drop awesome loot, drop plot hooks, give feedback on existing plots, drop clues to further plots. I cannot do this while Team Good is sat in an Inn talking.
My thought is that Team Good is trying too hard to fulfil a goal and need too much planned and scheduled DM events to do this. I wonder if they think that just running a scripted quest and having fun is wasting time and not furthering the goals of Team Good. My suggestion is that Team Good should just let some of these goals drift a little and go out and have fun questing and doing exciting things like slaying goblins and shit.
Developing a planned DM quest can take me days of preparation, and often I just don't have time for this, or have time for maybe, one per week, if I'm lucky. Scheduling events so Team Good can talk to an NPC also takes time. Furthering a plot by dropping another clue can take me an hour or two of entertainment. I can do three, four, five of these a week easily, but need Team Good out there doing shit just for pure fun, setting the environment for me to do this. Team good does not need to talk to NPCs to further plots, but this seems to be the main way Team Good wants to further plots. We can do this, but it is slow and demands a lot more DM effort and time to do so.
This is very much a generalisation and as such is flawed, but I think there are nuggets of truth somewhere in it.
I'd like to see Team Good should just go out there and have fun. I'll be watching and help them develop things.
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I think you are very much correct in many of your points Abbot. I do believe that we have been sitting about talking too much. Or putting way too much focus on "winning".
Yet, I can only speak for myself. When you are at the point that if you enter 80% of the server, and get caught, you get killed, it generally leads to being cautious. Walking into Arabel with a "disguise" is something I hate to do, as it feels like I am metagaming the guards around me.
Honestly, I think we just, intentionally or not, have pushed or have been pushed into a corner, a corner which simply isnt fun to be at.
Most likely, we have just made alot of wrong choices. I dont know, honestly. Yet, when it isnt fun, and feels like work, I am guessing its time to move on. Which from what I can gather, is what most of us are doing.
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The issues you have with the server being unavailable to you are less than you think. I've put many man-hours into creating new areas in the King's Forest and South for you to play in. From there, you can go round via Calanter's way and get to the Thunderholm region without going through Enemy Territory. So you have vast tracts of land and quests to play in without stepping into enemy territory.
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I can only concur on the sitting around inns talking, plotting, wondering, thinking, strategizing topic - booOooring. This is why my tracker has developed a restless legs syndrom for which there is only one cure. Get on your feet and go somewhere.
I mean seriously, consider what "team good" has accomplished. I agree, there is some ooc stuff that makes me go "oh great …" but hey, its a game. DMs trying to make it fun for everyone which means from time to time you need to take a step back and just allow it to happen, then reconsider what ic stuff you can drive with it. Take that Flynn crypt thing for example. Hells, we killed the Lich in there but before we could head deeper to destroy its phylactery the CoG and Legion moved in. Yes, DM didnt have time to run the 2nd part for us but so what? Now we can try to sneak by, convince some earth elementals to dig a tunnel for us, get some dwarves from Thunderholme to become allies to do so, get the mages guild to create a portal for us leading in, ... possibilities over possibilities. Something like that may feel as a loss to some but in reality its gain. Gain on more RP opportunities. Take the actions of the Legion, branding two of team good instead of outright killing them. Awesome! Now I say we capture Legionaires and do some proper exorcism on them to banish the evil demons or devils that posess them ;-)
We got so many plothooks that we dont know what to focus on first. I believe though we suffer on 2 issues - one being that we players come together to get something done and two being that some players let slip their views, goals just a little so we dont end up argueing but rather get something done.
In the meantime "Team Good" got access to all that we need. Potions, wands, weapons, armors ... and we can get it without venturing into enemy territory which is great. The new areas are awesome and the new quests good fun. If I had but one wish it would be for a bounty collector in our area as well. Sneaking into Arabel to collect bounties is ... uhmm.
For me its real life coming in between. Job, family, sport .... leaves little time to play. Past couple of weeks our baby wasnt sleeping that well and I had to jump on and off again and again to look after it while my wife tried to catch some proper sleep. But when I am online I tried to do stuff and if that means dragging 2 people into the halls to search for Takatas children then so be it. And if I cant find anyone then I sneak around, kill a few goblins, try my luck on a few giants, perhaps get some coin out of some chests and hope to run into other PCs or NPCs for some RP.
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I think the bottem line is if you want fun and to get things done don't spend all your time sitting in an inn.
Yet, I can only speak for myself. When you are at the point that if you enter 80% of the server, and get caught, you get killed, it generally leads to being cautious.
This has always been the case for criminals those that are playing the so called team good are criminals.Serveral good aligned characters walk the city freely,that said when playing a criminal you must take risks as playing it safe is boring.
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Personaly I'm getting two new set of advetures type stuff going, becuse i'm sick of being stuck in the Golden Unicorn.
:wink:
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I think the main difference is, that, when I encounter Team Evil, we walk around forests, underdark, montains, desert… And RP and plot while we do it.
When I encounter team good, we sit in an Inn and RP and plot.
I guess Thorkm's "Restless legs" syndrome is the key. Get up and move about, you don't need to stay still to plot!
(On another note, I've enjoyed both contacts very much, and don't consider it "dull" to sit in an Inn, plotting. Trying to beat off goblins while discussing your plots and secrets is a lot more interesting, mainly because it also offers more chances for others to spy on you.)
EDIT: I also find it funny that part of the team good is restricted from not entering Arabel, part of the team evil is likewise restricted. Who the heck, then, controls Arabel? Neutrals? :P
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Seems that adventure>intrigue. Sometimes its fun sitting around and plotting but a DM can't really spics that up much. Adventuring on the other hand is easier to enrich. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for PCs to create their own self created reasons for exploring, like finding the lost head of a saint of a certain religion. DMs will take time to listen to such player created ideas in my experience and with the later DM coverage maybe its a good time to promote such.
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To me, it is funny how the majority of advice given is "don't sit around and talk" and "talking is boring" when, most of the time I log out, I log out because I'm bored with tromping through the same old forests or the same old ruins and watching the same old fighters slaughter the same old spawns under the thin pretense of "getting something done."
I would love to spend some time sitting around inns and talking to interesting characters with unique motivations and individual personalities, but character development - based on my observations - appears to begin and end with a checklist of goals and objectives. Honestly, the goals and objectives of a character do not interest me as much as the why.
Again, based on my observations, there doesn't seem to be much why to characters beyond "this fosters adventure" or "this fosters intrigue." That, to me, makes a lot of the game feel contrived. To me, contrived action is much more boring than sitting around and talking.
I know this is how the server is, though. I know the priority is goals and objectives, not motivations and personalities. DMs can reward goals and objectives because goals and objectives are measurable. I know the priority is action, not sitting around and talking. DMs can reward action because action is measurable.
Honestly, though, I don't care about rewards. I would give up all of my XP and my loot and my gold and every plot in which I have ever had the privilege of participating to have players shift away from the mindset of "What can I, as a player, do to get me and my character rewarded?" and shift toward a mindset of "What would my character do, and, more importantly, why would my character do that?"
End rant. Commence mocking.
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@Eddie:
"What would my character do, and, more importantly, why would my character do that?"
I can only speak for myself but these are things I normally drop on quests, exploration, etc. I usually try to build it upon what we experience, what we come across and let slip remarks that can easily be picked up by others to dive into the motivation of my toon.
What I experience in inns is that either everybody is trying to talk and argue in an attempt to push his own agenda through, or argues why he cannot support this that way or nobody talks because all are semi-afk waiting for "something" to happen.
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I can only speak for myself but these are things I normally drop on quests, exploration, etc. I usually try to build it upon what we experience, what we come across and let slip remarks that can easily be picked up by others to dive into the motivation of my toon.
What I experience in inns is that either everybody is trying to talk and argue in an attempt to push his own agenda through, or argues why he cannot support this that way or nobody talks because all are semi-afk waiting for "something" to happen.
Ha ha. And I can't pick up and respond to things during patrols because there are one million people there, hoping a DM will show up if there is a big enough crowd, running around and killing everything in sight. I'm more than willing to admit it's my problem, though. My wants as a player don't often appear to line up with the wants of other players.
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Eddie,
The encouragement is for you and others to get out and about and do Fun things, not tramp endlessly through forests getting bored stupid. DMs play this for entertainment value as well. Watching a group of people in an inn talking extremely slowly, because of internet connection speeds and people going afk all the time is not entertaining to watch, hence we head out and have fun with folks who are out there doing things they find fun.
I don't really care if what you are doing is aiming towards a particular goal or not if it's entertaining you and a few other players. If it's entertaining and I see it I'll be adding to the fun.
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Listen to ABBY he killed my character the other night because it was fun.
Disclaimer.
It was in fact fun and a great end but sure wasn't planned!!!!! -
I think I could have been a bit clearer.
I ment that walking around and killing stuff -while- talking is more interesting and constructive than sitting around and talking.
Ie, if I can choose between:Let's discuss this plot we have in an Inn
OR
Let's discuss this plot we have in the wild while killing stuff, potentially walking into other PCsI rather choose option B. I'm fairly sure that the amount of time used for talking and plotting and planning plots is fairly same on avarage for both team good and team evil guys, team evil just does it in more interesting locations.
I also personally feel that you get to know the other characters a lot better on journeys than in an Inn, because of the variety of situations you go through.
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It's not just going out and killing things.
I drop small amounts of XP on players who're sitting around and talking, fighting duels, converting heathens, or whatever so long as they're being interesting, roleplaying in character and so on.
For example, I saw two [spoilers] sneakily meet up in the
! the other night to talk about
! !
! BAM have some XP
! Two players fighting a duel for reasons other than 'hey let's fight a duel?'
! BAM have some XP
! Player sends a Tell to the DM channel, 'hey we're going to do this thing over here'.
! BAM here's a thing! It may not be the thing you're looking for, but it is an entertaining thing nonetheless. -
Well, speaking for myself, it seems that the odds are so heavily stacked against Team Good that it engenders a feeling of complete hopelessness.
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I once got some XP sitting at a table in the Adventurers' Guildhall talking to someone.
To this day, I have not figured out what I did to earn them.
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I once got some XP sitting at a table in the Adventurers' Guildhall talking to someone.
To this day, I have not figured out what I did to earn them.
You were rping with someone, I often go around and give xp too those I see doing this.