Druids: Wider Picture or Tunnel Vision?
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Both options for a druid would be valid if considered properly. Th slaying of a demon cannot be regarded as wrong. A druid might not trust those wishing to hold the demon. Their plan may have no validity in the eyes of this druid. The druid may have been taunted too much.
I do like to see players who play their character in such a way that they are impacted by, or change their ridgidly held positions due to the actions of others.
I have rarely seen players allow their character to be persuaded away from a course of action that they held to be right. Humans are often pushed by circumstances to do what they believed to be wrong.
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I'd point out that a druid is never breaking an oath if he banishes any outsider, be they infernal or celestial.
The moment they decide to let them be for the "greater good", they start walking on shaky ground. If this "greater good" doesn't pan out, they might get into a lot of trouble with their God.
I quite disagreee, rather than trouble with the God, the first affront would be to their code, it is their code and their vows that turn them into a druid and in someway sacrifice such things to get powers from nature.
The druids do not serve their Gods they serve the Greater Balance. Even outsiders , devils and demons have a part to play in the cosmos of the Balance; hence banishing them isn't always the RIGHT way. shrugs
No, i'm sorry this is wrong.
Druids serve the Balance of NATURE, not the Planar Balance. They do not care about the outer realms. Outsiders do not belong on the Prime, the very stuff they are made of does not belong and their presence pollutes the Plane.
No druid should EVER allow an Outsider to remain on the Prime. Most will tolerate a summon, since it will return to its home after a short duration. But an Outsider who is on the Prime indefinitely? No, that is not to be tolerated. Ever.
That is not to say that a Druid would not hold off on killing the thing for long enough to ask questions, but who would trust the word of an Imp? And who would give important information to a pathetic little minor demon anyway?
The only reason any Druid should give even the slightest toss about Planar Balance is in order to keep the Celestials/Demons/Devils and the rest fighting amongst themselves so they can't focus on the Prime. But since the Outsiders do that themselves its about as low on a druids priority as it gets.
With the current trouble with the weakened Veil and the focus of many Outsiders turned upon the Prime, I would be disappointed to see any Druid tolerate the presence of an Outsider.
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Bad news I guess for a druid who gets paid a visit from an avatar of Silvanus.
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I do agree with Wabsie that a Druid is more focussed on the Balance of Nature rather than their Deity, though this is not an exclusive relationship.
Nature's Balance and the Oath hold a powerful grip, probably more than the Deity, or they'd be Clerics!
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A visit is temporary Emu :p
Deities are largely unimportant to druids.
They serve the land, and the deities give them power to protect it because they need it it is a part of their portfolio.
Gods come and go. The Land is always there.
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Two cents inbound~
Paladins, druids and their ilk exist primarily because they are devoted to a particular goal. Dieties who would like to see that goal fulfilled then sponser these people, perhaps making their support for the character clear to him so that they at least feel endeared towards their own goals - for instance, a Tyrran paladin might feel more responsible for combatting injust laws while a Helmite paladin may seek out children in danger above all else.
If a character acts drastically out of accordance of their sponser's wishes then they might lose divine backing - but so long as they remain in the right frame of mind, still value the same ideals as their profession dictates, in all liklihood another diety who sees them as a necessity will provide them power instead.
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Hinty
Druids serve the Balance of NATURE, not the Planar Balance. They do not care about the outer realms. Outsiders do not belong on the Prime, the very stuff they are made of does not belong and their presence pollutes the Plane.
Actually, the Greater Balance becomes more than just the Balance of nature for the more powerful druids where their reach and knowledge goes beyond.
As for this discussion, Eliphas would have killed it on site too. Why? From what Im told this mission was one for Kanthea, someone who has Imps as pets already - there would be no trust to her from a druid, nor the group giving it to her.
However, its not uncommon either for a druid to tolerate things more than they should if it might serve better for the Balance. It just depends on who's hands its in. If that mission was for a druid or someone trusted by a druid rather than Kanthea, it may have turned out differently. Druids have to make decisions too, just because they are wise doesn't mean they will always see how things will play out and how it will effect their oaths. Both Gurm and Eliphas would tolerate, and even on one or two occasions for with Outsiders (Which Agenda's of our own) when it had a very good outcome for the Greater Balance.
Delanish
The Multidute Eliphas and Gurm all had different oaths the Multidute was a bit more extremist then Gurm ever was but oaths are not "set in stone"
Actually, they were pretty extreme, just not obvoius about it like the Multitude were. Nothing is set in stone with druids, they have such a vast variety of how that can view and decide things, which has often led to hours of roleplay argueing different points between druids!
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I just think trying to put Druids in a small box of acceptable behavior is wrong- especially trying to lump them in with Paladins.
The deities in FR grant the druids all of their powers, they serve the balance at the whim of their deity. A druid of Talona or Malar is going to have a very different outlook on things than a druid of Eldath or Lurue. No, they aren't clerics, but saying the deity that makes them a druid doesn't really matter is going too far in my opinion.
I realize the thread was about debating the semantics in the first place, but if people play their druids in a thoughtful way, they're probably doing just fine.
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The deity of a druid does have an effect yes. But it serves more as a flavour to their actions and choices than as a guide.
Your average druid of Malar will likely have more in common with a Druid of Lurue than he will your average Cleric of Malar.
Of course there are extremists who come closer to blurring the line.
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I was digging around the forums and found these
There a good read especially The Gazebo post
/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51677
/topic/30
/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27 ... ight=druid -
The way I see it, this discussion should have belonged IG, between a group of druids, discussing this in their glade home.
Druids are seekers of wisdom. That means, they seek to understand, and learn of the world around them. Therefore, even if one makes a mistake, learning from such a mistake can be just as important, if not more, than always making the right decision.
Druids serve the balance. Lower level druids look at the balance, within a guarden, or perhaps a small forest area. Stronger druids, or covenants of druids see the balance of their forest home, and even stronger beings, begin to take interest in the cosmos balance of things.
Secondly, outsiders, aberations and undead, are unnatural, and hence disrupt the balance.
Yes, an imp or a slaad summoned for a few moments to assist a wizard survive an orgre attack will not disrupt the balance. It will easily recover. The longer it stays, the more disruptive an event it being here is.
An aasimar of Shaundakul who travels the world righting wrongs when seen, will not be slaughtered on sight, as his disruptive nature isnt very big.
A group of arcanists trapping powerful demons and devils to power their magical machines created to alter the very fabric of reality…. Now -that- is something a druid wouldnt tolerate.
Druids can be anything from NE, CN, LN; NG. How they view the balance is vastly different.
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@O'louth:
The way I see it, this discussion should have belonged IG, between a group of druids, discussing this in their glade home.
If only there were a group of druids <_< .
Good points everyone. With any luck there will be some new druidy and tree hugging characters abound. It is about time there is some druidy/wilderness plot IMO too much political intrigue can get tiresome time to time.
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There are tonnes of druids and druidy-rangers playing at the moment. You can't go five yards through the forest without hitting one.
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Also I'm more than happy to help out if anyone wants to do more with druid PC plots. Defending the Balance is open to interpretation. Here's a few examples of things druid factions could be doing:
Evil/Neutral druids
-Support, sponsor, participate in a bandit faction to limit the growth of the city
-Plotting to bring down the mage's guild, as you're convinced they're a hotbed of infernalism, necromancy, and all-around offensive to the balance
-Doing evil deals, engaging in politics to gain official control of the Hullack
-Support, encourage Giant Evil Humanoid Army X because Arabel Must Be Destroyed Because It Offends The Balance
-Support worshippers of the Furies, as it will in turn encourage respect for natureGood/Neutral druids
-Supporting, forming, participating in undead and demon hunting adventuring companies
-Engaging in politics in the city to limit the influence of the city on the wilds. Doing goodly favours to gain official control of areas like the King's Forest.
-Restoring the Helmlands through Giant Ritual X, Amazing Artifact Y, and a Whole Lot Of Adventuring
-Summon a Guardian Spirit to Defend Nature via through Giant Ritual X, Amazing Artifact Y, and a Whole Lot Of Adventuring
-Create a Wildlife Guide to Arabel and SurroundsInsane druids
-Create a utopian, insect-like hivemind society by creating a telepathic link
between every humanoid creatureI will shower you with XP and loot if you do anything like this.
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'Circle of the Fallen Leaf' :wink:
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i caught the tail end of the incident..and from i seen, it looked interesting
some characters were rather upset, but it was rped well i thought…
cilwa was actually a bit dismayed at the reaction of the of the characters, to harm a party member over a action against a thing she would consider a monster and something to simply be avoided
the event did make me laugh in a good way, it had it comedic value, i am not sure if anyone else picked up on what i seen, especially from the npcs in the mage guild..it was worth the price of admission alone..and maleens reaction when the question was asked "what crime was committed anyways?"
his and kantheas relationship must have a certain amount of tension, i forget his exact words but it was something like " her inconvenience is not a crime" i actually laughed out loud when that message popped up on my screen!!
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There are tonnes of druids and druidy-rangers playing at the moment. You can't swing a dead cat in the forest without hitting one.
Fixed.
Druids definitely suffer from tunnel vision when it comes to trees and the greater good, at least from a dwarven perspective. :lol:
My dwarf had fun trying to convince a druid of the need to burn down the King's Forest to help eliminate the "Imortal Coven of Elven Vampire Witches" that hide there.
Being able to strip mine for valubal minerals afterwards was just a bonus from removing both the trees and the nasty elven witches. Instead of seeing the numerous upsides and profit potential of the plan the silly druid just yelled at my dwarven common sense and stormed off. :roll: