The CoA Magic Level - A Discussion
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It's not a "problem", it's a preference.
What I prefer, is basically what you wrote, only one level lower.
I.E.
non magic gear, pretty standard among adventurers.
+1 stuff, focussed on one enemy type and very very rare, probably DM loot.
+2 stuff and above, focused on one enemy type, used only during the end of a plot, only DM loot, removed after plot completed in some way.Right now, obtaining magical gear is not that hard. People who A&I well receive better gear than the average level.
All I meant was, adventurers in standard gear, and people who A&I well get magic stuff.
It's just what I'd like to see. Neither caek nor I are actually expecting it to happen.
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Problem with that Rel, is that it effectively limits the DM's arsenal of enemies they can use, while not totally annihilating whatever party has run into them, unless of course they -always- have a wizard with a ton of scrolls/levels, or a bunch of arcane whetstones handy.
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I'm sure there are a lot of problems with it when looked at from a server perspective! Hence, "preference". It's just what -I- would personally like to see.
Like I said, caek did not start the thread with the idea to change it, only to see what others thought about it.
My previous post was simply to clarify to you that I don't have a problem with the way things are currently.
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I like the current magic level.
I've been an advocate for a long time of upping the magic level but certainly over the past year I’ve seen more items creep in which make me a happy camper.
+1 equipment is out there, +2 is even out there if you’re lucky enough, and of course there’s the socket system now in full swing – hasn’t really taken off yet, but I imagine it will in the near future. I like where CoA is at the moment in terms of magic.
On a side note, that is perhaps going a little off topic, I am glad the whole hedge magic craze is over, it was the solution to every problem for a few months last year.
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I´m fine with the current magic level.
What I don´t personally like to see is that warriors have eight different long swords + 1 vs something on their belt, each in case that a particular enemy shows up. Which might happen if there are too many + 1 vs something around.
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Several of my past characters have had a bunch of different weapons for different enemies, one had a weapon for almost every enemy type there was at one point, I love it. +1 vs something is pretty pointless though, as there is a fair bit of +1 vs everything around, +2, or elemental damage vs though, thats the stuff.
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I tend to like the idea of lower magic level settings where finding fullplate is a big deal and if you've got some magic gear then you're someone important, but Arabel works well the way it is.
I also like the idea of most plots being non-epic material plane based occurances that involve few titanic and legendary monsters, so that when plots do come about that involve those sorts of events and creatures they are all the more thrilling. That being said all my plots have been epic world shattering plots centered around an epic monster.
Cool monsters and cool places are cool, so we end up using them.
As much as I'd like the appearance of Cra'zylon'gname the Dragon to be a "woah" moment, monsters like him are more fun (at least on my side of the events) than fighting Joseph the level 6 bandit who's several month-long plot revolves around stealing the purses of townsfolk.
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It's very simple for me. If magic weapons are very rare and I find a magical sword, I'm gonna experience that warm fuzzy feeling telling me I have done something right, I'm gonna give the sword a name, and roleplay wielding a powerful artifact the whole day. If +1 swords are common, and I find a +2 or even +3 sword, my thought is "wow, one more ab now."
Ice and fire>FR
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@Foba:
It's very simple for me. If magic weapons are very rare and I find a magical sword, I'm gonna experience that warm fuzzy feeling telling me I have done something right, I'm gonna give the sword a name, and roleplay wielding a powerful artifact the whole day. If +1 swords are common, and I find a +2 or even +3 sword, my thought is "wow, one more ab now."
Why, does a simple name matter that much?!
If DMs renamed all +1 weapons from 'magic sword' to 'very good sword' and only +2 ones would be named as 'magic sword' would you feel something else? The numbers stay the same, and so their distribution and other statistical parameters. Who cares how they are named?I don't really understand the whole debate.
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Because it's MAGIC. It is not the +1 that matter, but the fact a sword is magical, and rare, in a world were such swords are only told in fairy tales.
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Magic items are cool. They make players happy, even though most of the magic items people get are not so powerful that they make the character much stronger then he was. I remember a time when grinding out for your fullplate took the first few weeks of any fighter type characters life, which usually meant that character was not getting involved for the first few weeks because he was too busy spamming easy lowbie quests then logging off until he made enough gold to feel comfortable.
Adventure is cool. Traveling through planes, hunting down dragons that have burnt towns to the ground, climbing a mountain to find sune hanging out and ending up in the hottest cybor coa has ever seen, these are all things that far exceed standing around the market waiting for someone to make a sending for the fey quest, something that was a common past time of coa when plots were few and far between.
Theres good and bad to both sides of this age old CoA argument, but I'm pretty sure that experience has tought us that a healthy level of loot and a healthy collection of dms (all of whom want to run their own plots) makes for a healthier server.
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As much as I'd like the appearance of Cra'zylon'gname the Dragon to be a "woah" moment, monsters like him are more fun (at least on my side of the events) than fighting Joseph the level 6 bandit who's several month-long plot revolves around stealing the purses of townsfolk.
I think you're taking the second example a bit too much to the extreme, honesty.
No-body is saying that plots which DON'T involved a dragon or a god need to be mind-numbingly boring (ie a man stealing a jar of jam)
Talk like that is a bit silly, but then people always talk in total extremes when stuff like this is discussed
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Totally 21tonnegiant.
Why use dragons? Let's just plop some strange cult in the middle of the city and see what happens?
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I always enjoy plots that aren't necessarily world changing. Hunting down Joseph the 6th level bandit that stole an important artifact from the mages guild, hiding in the woods accosting travelers on the roads and recruiting player characters is pretty much just as fun as hunting down the Devil Dragon (at least for me) and also seems much more accessible and easy going. Some of my favourite DM events were hunting down a ring of bloodstone smugglers in Immersea with my Hoaran character, or even working for Drinlek the Bugbear way back in early v3.
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To me, I prefer very very low magic fantasy worlds, where magic is a rare, mystical and awe-inspiring thing.
BUT
Playing an online RPG that has to stay fresh after 8 odd years (?) set in such a world, would bore me to tears.
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Now…
I would -love- is more weapons were:
+1 ab
+x vs Hill giants that snore / Big meany one eyed orcs.That way, its magical in nature, but only really shines when used against a certain type of enemy.
I remember Durdyn, a big meany, back in the day, had a +1 enchantment, +4 enchantment vs bugs axe.
That way, he didnt need to carry around 50 different types of weapons, but when he fought bugs, his axe made him a beast to remember.
-That- to me, is how dm loot should be. Let +1 weapons be somewhat common, but let everything above be special.Now, about the whole.... epic plot thing... I like lesser world changing plots. If you, say, play a paladin of Torm, and EVERY single plot, is about the world coming to an end, then its hard to pick and choose IG what is the most important.
However, if most plots are more akin to the Grey Circle Plot, then wickedly awesome. Plots like those are fun, because you may end up in big meta plots, but if you fail, the world wont come to an end. That allows the good pc vs evil pc part of the plots not have a fixed outcome before it all begins...
The dms arent going to allow sharrans to destroy the world. But allow zhentarim forces to take over the city, due to player actions, they might.
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I always enjoy plots that aren't necessarily world changing. Hunting down Joseph the 6th level bandit that stole an important artifact from the mages guild, hiding in the woods accosting travelers on the roads and recruiting player characters is pretty much just as fun as hunting down the Devil Dragon (at least for me) and also seems much more accessible and easy going. Some of my favourite DM events were hunting down a ring of bloodstone smugglers in Immersea with my Hoaran character, or even working for Drinlek the Bugbear way back in early v3.
The problem with this is that the events you're describing are events not big long term plots. Hunting down a level 6 bandit in the woods takes at most an afternoon, because the first time a group encounters him they'll beat him to death due to his non-epicness. We have plenty of things like this all the time, when I log in I usually dick around with something like "Bandit Joe stole X from X! Save X!" Long term plots are usually where the epic monsters and locations come into play.
The Devil Dragon is a plot, or a series of connected events, because it'll take weeks or months to resolve. It requires thought, planning and action rather than just participation and a big part of that is because the monster/villain is too epic to simply walk up to and beat to death with a sword (like Joe the level 6 bandit).
If a plot is expected to last longer than one or two events then there needs to be some property to it that makes it difficult to resolve by beating it to death and the most common solution to that is usually; make it something big. Armies of humanoids, a dragon, extra-planar creatures, something that can raise itself from the dead, ect. None of which are things you'd expect to encounter in every day life "every few months".
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An army of orcs, or gnolls, political corruption and the like, are also not world changing plots.
What I mean is, while I personally like the oppertunity to travel to other planes, or kill a dragon… If someone runs around with 6 different color dragon heads in a magical bag, it might become a tad dull...
Also, a lvl 20 blackguard, isnt necessarily world changing.
But, a bit more... fight people, and not just epic devils or liches, can also be fun, and with a bit of creative thinking, can easily turn into a plot.
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I always enjoy plots that aren't necessarily world changing. Hunting down Joseph the 6th level bandit that stole an important artifact from the mages guild, hiding in the woods accosting travelers on the roads and recruiting player characters is pretty much just as fun as hunting down the Devil Dragon (at least for me) and also seems much more accessible and easy going. Some of my favourite DM events were hunting down a ring of bloodstone smugglers in Immersea with my Hoaran character, or even working for Drinlek the Bugbear way back in early v3.
<3 for Drinlek and thelibor
my personal prefereance is a very low magic setting where +1 items are hard (not rare) to come buy. Makes mosters with DR scarier. makes everything scarier. CoA needs more fear in the dark and wild places.
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A level 20 blackguard could be world changing, as such would more likely be the general of some Demon Lord or Prince.