High Level Quests and Doing It Hard Core
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Lower level "difficulty" resulting in people not being able to get characters to do high level quests will likely end when the recipes for typical consumables are implemented. Blur, barkskin, and shield are practically staples for not dying to bad luck for the lower hp classes if engaging in combat. Stealth/invisibility for survival. When we start seeing these we'll know the real difficulty of things.
"Keep dying" is not a solution to a game where respawning is just a convenience given in a system where death is really death. If adventurers aren't getting enough goods on average, being left to die like lemmings on some poor man's errand, that's bad. Keeping in character, there wouldn't be much adventurers left, or at least they would get smart enough to resort to villainy as a whole just to live another day.
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says on a low and shy voice
I didn't mean to suggest to do anything with the critcal hits.
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Maybe you could lose less xp from death as you level up? So it's still hard to get to a high level, but it's not as hard to keep near it.
So like, level 7 the xp loss is -4%, level 8 it's -8%, etc. You'd still lose a lot of xp, but it wouldn't be as harsh! That would kind of compliment the decreasing xp gain from kills.
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@Simultaneous:
Maybe you could lose less xp from death as you level up? So it's still hard to get to a high level, but it's not as hard to keep near it.
So like, level 7 the xp loss is -4%, level 8 it's -8%, etc. You'd still lose a lot of xp, but it wouldn't be as harsh! That would kind of compliment the decreasing xp gain from kills.
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't matter, but I think that's a really good idea.
Although I did once manage to make it to level 10 or so with a spellsword. I ran into the same brick wall as everyone else. It's hard to get a high level group together in the first place, let alone a balanced one. And, generally, when we did manage it, we all used far more gold in potions and other supplies than the quest reward could ever pay for. Thus, we risked death to lose money.
Then again, this was like… many builds ago.
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@Simultaneous:
Maybe you could lose less xp from death as you level up? So it's still hard to get to a high level, but it's not as hard to keep near it.
So like, level 7 the xp loss is -4%, level 8 it's -8%, etc. You'd still lose a lot of xp, but it wouldn't be as harsh! That would kind of compliment the decreasing xp gain from kills.
Yes, that is why I don't like high level quests. It isn't dieing it is losing three levels. That is just extreme overkill. That is still a good chunk of xp but it isn't a ridiculous amount of time and effort lost. I'm all for it 100%
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Devil's Advocate -
1. High level characters need to think about getting Raised/Resurrected if they die. I was recently resurrected when I died on the Slumming It quest and didn't even lose a level at all! If a high level character can't afford the less than 2K cost for a Resurrection, then I suggest you start selling all that "extra" stuff you carry around.
2. On the flip side! If Resurrection/Raise Dead is to be a viable option for players IG, then there should be more accessible NPCs/Areas where this can happen. The Yaesol quest or Yhuan (sp?) Caravan for example. To die on those quests means carrying the body/loot back for a LONG distance to the City for a raise. I propose creating shrines/NPCs/areas in distant places to resurrect/raise PCs who happen to be out there.
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I wish there were more laid back high level quests. When you are low level you can grab two friends and just go do some quests. You don't need to mass an army and carefully plan each step and use tons of consumables. A couple 2-4 max party quests that are easier and relaxing to do would be very nice. I don't see why high level means it must be a hardcore quest.
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@The:
I wish there were more laid back high level quests. When you are low level you can grab two friends and just go do some quests. You don't need to mass an army and carefully plan each step and use tons of consumables. A couple 2-4 max party quests that are easier and relaxing to do would be very nice. I don't see why high level means it must be a hardcore quest.
I quite like this.
Low risk, low XP, low reward, but entertaining, and between 30-60 minutes run time. Kind of like Jarneks, but with appropriate level monsters. Lots of lower level monsters that might give 1 or 2 XP. If they were designed with lots of moral decisions to cope with or other such choices, even more fun.
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To be honest, my feed back is quite poor since I've never actually hit Level 7 in my time on this server. However I've taken part in some of the higher level quests as a low level archer, keeping well and alive.
I've seen what most people have described, its just not efficient to go high level questing. A lot of effort and money is pumped into these quests, and from my (unpleasant) experience as an emergency frontliner, its just not cost effective.
Of course, as I've mentioned, I'd take opinions from people who have broken the level 7 barrier that I've run into too many times.
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@The:
I wish there were more laid back high level quests. When you are low level you can grab two friends and just go do some quests. You don't need to mass an army and carefully plan each step and use tons of consumables. A couple 2-4 max party quests that are easier and relaxing to do would be very nice. I don't see why high level means it must be a hardcore quest.
Personaly I though that was part of the purpose of the Fivestar delevery quest, nice simple way to make a bit of gold for sendings and surplies if your having trouble getting much proftable questing done.
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Maybe increase the level range on the caravans again?
I remember the old caravans were any levels if I recall correctly
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I don't know why it has to always incessantly be low risk/low reward if you can only take the quest so many times or has a time sink to it.
Perhaps a low risk/ medium reward quest that is fairly long (1-2.5 hours). Deliveries to a war zone under a rain of fireball catapults seem like an interesting idea. You might not need to even party up for this one.
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If you want people to do high level quests, level me up to 8, give me some decent gear, and when I can log on I will lead people out to every hard quest there is (or stand there bored waiting people to show up for my sending).
Seriously, I like doing those quests, I just don't want to have to do parner/fey ect. to get there. Alternatively, you can just make new lowbie quests to replace the ones that have been done by coa players a gazzillion times over, that might be a good option too.
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I get a feeling that DM's want to increase the level range of players so that they can bring more creatures, monsters and spells into play and running some plots where they dont have to nerf the creatures so that its not a party wipe.
Thats said day before yesterday, DM spiced a regular high level quest, giving some great exp and even greater loot which are usally assocated with non scripted quest.
At high level quest, I would like to see more versatile caster having some really good gear to withstand the hits.
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Higher level groups need to mix their tactics up more, at higher levels CoA creatures start having more distinct strengths and weaknesses. In particular two things, spellcasters should have a few tricks up their sleeves and most high CR creatures have been built to not have the major weaknesses that the majority of Bioware default creatures tend to. In recent times DMs have also deliberately put a lot more equipment into the module that has properties against specific races, attacks etc. The same philosophy applies, mix it up, use it where appropriate. The one approach fits all solution stops working at about level 6.
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Nothing in a scripted quest on CoA will hit you for more than 70 damage on a crit. If your health has dropped to a point where a crit can kill you, it's about time to start healing yourself, people!
Quite incorrect, I've seen it extremely rarely, but I've seen it:
@My:[Sun Sep 5 23:37:48] Improved Expertise : Kali Latori attacks Half-Fiend Warrior : miss : (9 - 2 = 7)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:50] Half-Fiend Warrior attacks Kali Latori : miss : (8 + 24 = 32)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:50] Sneak Attack : Garland attempts Improved Knockdown on Half-Fiend Warrior : miss : (6 + 11 = 17)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:52] Half-Fiend Warrior attacks Kali Latori : critical hit : (20 + 19 = 39 : Threat Roll: 17 + 19 = 36)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:52] Sneak Attack : Garland attacks Half-Fiend Warrior : miss : (3 + 10 = 13)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:53] Half-Fiend Warrior damages Kali Latori: 71 (71 Physical)
[Sun Sep 5 23:37:53] Half-Fiend Warrior killed Kali LatoriI've also seen a half-orc bandit damage a CMB for 82hp in one crit, and a bresk castle guard kill fleabag in one 73 hp crit.
I remember that day… x,x
I would like to mention that critical hit didn't happen during a scripted quest, that happened during a DM event.
~Sunshine
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@Whitelight:
Higher level groups need to mix their tactics up more, at higher levels CoA creatures start having more distinct strengths and weaknesses. In particular two things, spellcasters should have a few tricks up their sleeves and most high CR creatures have been built to not have the major weaknesses that the majority of Bioware default creatures tend to. In recent times DMs have also deliberately put a lot more equipment into the module that has properties against specific races, attacks etc. The same philosophy applies, mix it up, use it where appropriate. The one approach fits all solution stops working at about level 6.
nah i reckon a buffing and healing caster along with a rogue and a fighter in plate, towershield and expertise works from levels 1-40
jasede hit it on the head though, people on coa have no concept of the mechanics which is like half the game and the ones that do end up being shunned for being too good for the majority of the player base to handle, there is no way however to solve this issue unless you offer much harsher and grueling low level quests to force people to learn the mechanics
then again such quests may not even be done by the majority player base for the very reason they are made >_>
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…the ones that do end up being shunned for being too good for the majority of the player base to handle
I disagree.
No one that I know of shuns people with good mechanical skills. People maybe shunned if all they exhibit is good mechanical skills. If you combine good mechanics with enjoyable RP, you have a recipe for success on this server, both as a high level player and as a mover and shaker.
Mechanical skills and enjoyable RP are not mutually exclusive. However, a good RP'er may use knowledge of mechanics to exhibit flaws and strengths within a character to great effect.
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jasede hit it on the head though, people on coa have no concept of the mechanics which is like half the game and the ones that do end up being shunned for being too good for the majority of the player base to handle
Thats in fact a wrong impression the majority have been told time and again by dm's that they want to see different characters with weaknesses and themes,this means that casters tend to play dumb ie they stick to there themes or refuse to buff the fighter and crew on quests this leads to making things alot harder and more deaths.
As to being shunned only those that go from 1-10 in under 2weeks and then start to rp get shunned if your active with players and i don't mean the 3-4 questing buddies but with serveral others then they are accepted by the majority. -
In my view, we need more mechanically skilled players taking classes IC with some OOC overtones to teach players. If done well, this can be fun IG. Another technique is for a character to write an in-game tome on tactics and strategy for a particular class/concept and explain things in terms of IC techniques with OOC mechanics added as comments. These instructional tomes can then be published in the library. I did such a tome as Sywyn the Summoner and had it published in the Library.