No Dice
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How does everybody feel about skill/ability rolls?
I've seen them used a few times now in different circumstances, some PvP and some otherwise and I've always been of the opinion that I'll abide by them if they're DM requested.
I dread when PCs request them, even characters I'm well familiar with or my character is friends with, typically because it's mostly chance. What's more is when a character says something not particularly convincing, rolls for Bluff/Persuade/Intimidate with no modifier and expects my character to play along. I usually ignore those.
If it's a character I'm familiar with, I'm more inclined to believe a convincing argument/coercion when it's done well without any roll needed. In my mind, a good skill roll needs the requisite roleplay. I'm just not impressed by a flat statement and a dice roll.
So what do you all think? Having noticed a few groups of players using them with some consistency, I want to see how everyone else feels about skill/ability rolls.
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I dislike them except when I can use them to my benefit!
Which is never. So they suck.
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I have no problem with them, so long as they enhance rp, and don't ruin immersion. Situations like spotting something hidden on a character's body, or grappling without pvp, and a myriad of other reasonable situations. Situations where no other fair alternative exists.
Times where persuade is used in conversation, instead of convincing arguments, or charisma rolls, or perform checks… Meh. I don't feel like rolling an 18 deserves congratulations. -
My opinion, Dice are for DMs. Roleplay your stats, don't rollplay them.
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@Cunning:
My opinion, Dice are for DMs. Roleplay your stats, don't rollplay them.
That's actually my sentiments exactly.
Not a fan of them at all.
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I have no problem with them, so long as they enhance rp, and don't ruin immersion. Situations like spotting something hidden on a character's body, or grappling without pvp, and a myriad of other reasonable situations. Situations where no other fair alternative exists.
However, don't these situations actually require a DM to oversee? That'd render that rather moot. (Ed: ACtually, I think it's fine if both parties are okay with it? I forget.)
I have no problem with perform rolls, personally, since not everyone can write poetry or songs or what have you.
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I think that the social side of the skills could greatly enhance rp if other players took them into account. Instead though they are largely ignored except when a character is trying to get an extra 25gp out of a quest npc and im more likely to intimidate someone if I play a half orc with 6 charisma and just pvp all the time growling in black armour than if I play a high charisma character and threaten convincingly.
The problem is that an in game mechanism doesnt exist to take these skills into account in a multiplayer environment without becoming a boring scenario where every argument is resolved with a dull battle of dice rolls, in which the loser resents having to take into account that their 6cha half orc isnt as scary as someone that can articulate a threat without coming off about as scary as a high functioning autistic. I guess what im saying is its a shame the skills dont have more of a use in game but theres little that can be done about it.
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Theres a fix for this. Its simple. All you have to do is if you like to do this. As in roll for bluff and what not with other characters just put this in your description. Then later we can put them in a big camp and…. scratchs his small mustache
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The only time you -have- to make a dice roll is when a DM requires it.
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@Cunning:
My opinion, Dice are for DMs. Roleplay your stats, don't rollplay them.
That's actually my sentiments exactly.
Not a fan of them at all.
Mostly this, however there are a few exceptions. Such as when both parties agree to it, and it harms no-one.. For example simple arm wrestles with str checks. Though I have to say I usually like going for 3 checks, and the one who wins most rounds wins, since there's less chance of just getting stupidly lucky rolls and the 10 str beating a 16 str or whatever.
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If someone dicerolls for a skill, I tend to let the moddifier influence me rather that the actual outcome. it means someone's taken the the time to put their points in the particular skills they think their character should have and that they play.
Ofcourse sometimes the roll is in a skill they have little or no points in and they roll a 20, that's just luck and that happens IRL too.
There's fun that can be had with it but for major things, I'd mainly prefer not to involve actual rolls unless a DM asks for one.Unless ofcourse you just want to show off your amazing 28 perform modifier…
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The problem is, for example, intimidation. There are many ways to scare people by mere talking, or even facial gestures if you are a scary guy(I mean seriously, I will admit it - I got scared off few people based only on their appearance and/or how they looked at me) - but rarely one reacts to it, usually the proud - talk continues. No other way then to cast dice in those moments.
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i have found that the only times people ask for dice rolls is when they have a good chance of 'winning'.
sometimes it is appropriate, merchant using appraise to determine values for items they dont know with accompanying tell asking real value, etc
but usually it is used more like:
char1: "give me your money it is for a good cause." bluff
char2: i dont believe you!
car1 : make a roll to disbelieve my bluff.maybe that is just my experience, the first case i am perfectly happy with. the second unless it is very well done such that you are ooc enjoying the experience, is just lame.
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cadiz basically has it. You only see people insisting on skill rolls when their character has 18 charisma and skill focus persuade.
You never see half-orcs with 8 charsima and barbarian as a class attempting to roll for bluff.
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I don't like the dice very much, I tend to just look through your stats and go from there.
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With or without Dice I have sometimes great difficulty telling whether I can identify a certain magical phenomenon, or possess the appropriate Lore. Social skills such as Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate are hard to RP in practice, because you do not know how intimidating is a 5 in Intimidate, how persuasive is a 20 in Persuade…
The only thing Rolls help with perhaps is telling whether you managed to successfuly recall something, identify an object or to see if you persuaded somebody.
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@Amber:
If someone dicerolls for a skill, I tend to let the moddifier influence me rather that the actual outcome.
Agreed. Someone making a fluke roll with a poor modifier has less impact than someone making a poor roll with an impressive modifier. If the roll was poor, I might not be persuaded/intimidated/whatever on that occasion, but I'll make a mental note about the player and treat their future actions accordingly. If they just had a lucky roll without any real talent in that area, I'll play along to a degree but it depends on the situation.
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The problem I have with people dismissing dice rolls, insisting on convincing argument and real bluffing is that it hinges on player skills and abilities not character skills and abilities.
If you are a player who struggles in real life with charisma, intelligence or wisdom and the associated skills, you may struggle more to play a character who excels in these areas. Rolling dice might be your only realistic option. I say, give people a chance. I do like Amber's approach of weighting the stats rather than the actual roll.
However, please don't read into this any criticism. I've seen players who are absolute failures in real life with charisma because of personal insecurity excel in role-play, because they can put their own life story behind them when hiding behind and avatar and computer screen.
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The only time I've seen dice rolls effect anything is when a DM asked for you to roll, or if your wanting to roll for something while a DM is around.
I can't say I've ever seen an instance where player vs player rolls have really effected anything unless its for something fun (Arm wrestling, STR Vs STR).
However, When its something thats suppose to have a DC (Bluff?) Who sets it? There would always be an arguement or disagreement and those type of rolls should be left for the DM's in my opinion.
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@Amber:
If someone dicerolls for a skill, I tend to let the moddifier influence me rather that the actual outcome.
Agreed. Someone making a fluke roll with a poor modifier has less impact than someone making a poor roll with an impressive modifier. If the roll was poor, I might not be persuaded/intimidated/whatever on that occasion, but I'll make a mental note about the player and treat their future actions accordingly. If they just had a lucky roll without any real talent in that area, I'll play along to a degree but it depends on the situation.
Agreed with both. Also, when I played Dayne, I sometimes rolled the dice - not to force the other to agree with my roll, but merely to show that he had the skill to bluff/be convincing/appraise stuff's value, even if I had not.
I also did, a few times, when a player tried to buy an expensive item dirt cheap, ask them about their appraise/persuade/bluff. I mean, my character has them all near 20 - I think it's unrealistic for someone with that cha 10 fighter with no points in them trying to talk 50% off from an item that costs me 4000 >.> especially when they obviously are not playing their stats (trying to persuade/bluff their way through it).
All in all, I don't like rolls too much, but I tend to think that they are… "all right" in cases where someone is trying to do something (Bluff, persuade, intimidate, grapple you) and you aren't sure wether they'd succeed or not - asking them to roll just so that you can see if they have the mechanics to back up the deed. (example - a half-orc tries to lie to you. Asking for their bluff, I notice that they actually have 10 in it, I buy the bluff. Likewise, if a half-orc that is obviously a warrior of some kind tries to grapple me, I wouldn't ask for their str - they likely have it high anyway. Of course, depending on the situation, I'd likely ask for a DM in any case.)