What Should Clerics Be Doing?
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@O'louth:
Wrote a lot.
You mean like we're planning on the real DM forums already? Sucka. You're not in the club, you didn't get to partake in that decision making process.
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@O'louth:
Wrote a lot.
You mean like we're planning on the real DM forums already? Sucka. You're not in the club, you didn't get to partake in that decision making process.
One day, Moloch, I will be a real dm! And not made out of wood!
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Wood? Dude, you're carved from mushroom pulp. Hate to break it to you.
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One day I'll be a real boy.
:(
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The vast number of different dogmas is something that makes each cleric a special case though. Depending on the deity they follow, it can be clear how they should be RPed or it could be very comfusing.
From personal experience, playing a cleric of the elven god Corellon, things where quite straightforward for me. My character developed nicely, got involved with the elven fanction , tried to promote his gods ways openly, gather his kin, preached etc. It was fun and relatively easy to know what to do with this character. He did achieve a certain level (8 I think) but in my mind he was a well played cleric (he did not shine I m sure but he did good I think, personal view)
Now my side character is a follower of Fenmarel (another elven god, who promotes isolation and self reliance, usually venerated by outcasts who have left their people willingly most times) I found it quite a challenge and I still don't know how to RP him in many cases. Preaching is not something he would do, neither is gathering people to talk to. He is, or should be a hermit, as clerics of Fenmarel have little limitations other than ensuring their own survival and teaching others (in small groups I d think) to do so.
These are examples to show how different dogmas of gods of the same race (a relatively homogenous race in beliefs) can make it easy or hard to be RPed.
So all in all I think that while the first of these two characters could be considered a cleric that does what he should, the other would be thought as one that is a "bad" cleric by those who only have seen him a few times, without really this being the case.
All in all I m in favor of rewarding the really well played clerics, but from what I red here this is already the case if they 're "helped" in some way to attain a certain level. I do not see any change needed in this though the extra spell idea I love. Especially if its a spell to add flavor more than a simply powerfull spell.
Every well played character is rewarded by DMs once he stands out in their perspective (which can often differ from ours as players). So are clerics. Yes they are powerfull but I dont see the need to limit them only because this is taken advantage of by those powergamish few, besides I ve not see those included in plots often so they do not actually spoil anything for me.
To conclude I also think that most clerics are the average cleric of their faith, only few have I seen that I thought they re lame, and a few more that really stood out for me with their RP. (Again thought this is the case for every class so…) :wink:
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[Wololo's as the thread is driven right off the tracks by DM's]
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[You write a long view on things and 3 to 5 posts have been posted in the meantime…Should really improve my typing times...or thinking times]
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Our main focus is just trying to get ideas on what a "well played" cleric would be doing theoretically or in general. So we can help people understand our community's expectations.
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This might sound a little ham fisted, but just throwing ideas out there. What about sending letters on the forums to clerics who do a poor job, from a NPC official-church cleric of that god, saying why they are doing a bad job and how.
To save DM effort, for clerics of gods with a following on the server, the NPC could tell a more devout follower of the god(cleric or not) what the cleric is doing wrong and send the PC to correct them, telling them they were sent by the official church. If you do this now, 90% of the time the cleric becomes defensive and refuses to acknonwledge they have done anything wrong, but if the origin of the complaint is an official NPC, it may put a little fear of god into them.
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Again, its easier for DMs to focus on the positive instead of the negative.
Poorly played clerics need good examples, its not that players suck at roleplaying–its that they may not understand their deity or role on the server.
Also, the clerics that are really bad, we do tend to talk to--but its something we treat typically as an OOC problem because--again--we don't presume people are trying to roleplay a bad cleric.
Now, if they violate their faith outright, that we do treat IC.
But don't confuse a cleric who violates their faith with a poorly roleplayed cleric.
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My pet peeve with clerics is when they display having 8 wisdom instead of whatever they have on the character sheet. "What's that, scholar? Mask is dead? My vindictive friends say otherwise, and they've heard of books too. I'll side with them and spread what are most likely falseties."
Having played one for a long time, I have no idea what I did wrong or right. I never got any feedback aside from the odd "I like your sending" when Litz was broadcasting for people to come to her - which they never did, and nothing got done. This leads me to have a problem with all of the above suggestions where "clerics that do awesome" are rewarded, because it's well known by a few what is considered awesome, and as far as I know hidden from the rest.
They know who they are, but the others may not. The examples to follow are easily lost when the strongest are obeyed because they can take you on high-xp quests later if they like you. Looking at the player list one can easily mistake high levels for having done alot in the ways of plot-furthering, which is on the one hand false, but on the other hand where the fallacy becomes something akin to truth: you sometimes see characters that only ever come on when there is a big DM plot concluding and they were asked to come because of their mechanical strenght - or inbetween DM events to do high-end quests when enough other powerhouses are on. These characters rely almost solely on their power, since they do nothing but "remain in good standing with so-and-so during long periods of never logging on". This isn't to say they don't roleplay their faith, but it easily blurs the line between favoring power or roleplay.
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I think levels is a big thing when it comes to being acknowledged by others when you're a cleric, you HoG the shit out of some undead and everyone will be like omg ur lathander is frickin glitchin
Other than that I think it's quite hard to be known unless you do what I do and spam the boards and make continuous announcements about your faith >_>
I also really think a dm needs to be involved in sermons that take place, even if you're one of the best rpers around they are boring as hell (Like auctions) but if a dm added something, dunno what, to mix it up a bit, maybe add some lights etc >_> then people will be like omg this is the shit
As for what makes a good cleric I'd say its pretty much with any other class, the effect you have on other characters, ideas like found your own shrine/temple is shit I think, well not shit but its such a long term goal I'd say not to bother. A really good cleric is someone who converts people to their faith, gets the norm to hate the enemies of their faith and also fear I think is a big thing, if you get your lathanderite to be feared by every necromancer on the server then I think you've made it big.
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I think levels is a big thing when it comes to being acknowledged by others when you're a cleric, you HoG the shit out of some undead and everyone will be like omg ur lathander is frickin glitchin
Please, please, please lets move away from that mentality. Thats like someone praising a maxed dexterity halfing with all the stealth feats for their ability to hide/ms.
Its not big and its not clever.
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It's still true, even that halfling statement is true, make one and see how many people will choose you as their scout for the party when you get around level 5-6.
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I always liked it when clerics preached their god's dogma in a open discussion with people who disagreed with the cleric and questioned his ideas. When the cleric answers the questions with ease you can tell the player did research and is a good Rper.
thats what i want more of.
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Come on, guys. It's all about the fun, really. I don't think you should take
this so seriously. Yeah, there should be standards to playing a certain class,
but that should go for everything, really. A warrior with 14 int shouldn't be
as intelligent as a wizard. A monk should be wise, a cleric should guide
people. But if you're gona fight over what's cool and what's not, then we're
basically arguing over opinions. Have fun your own way! Don't hate!It's a fictional world and a game! Remember that!
-DS
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Man, that was some deep shit DS.
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can we have more religion wars? church on church crime
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Tymora seems to have beef with a few religions. I'm sure if someone brought up an official clergy on one of those, you got yourself a religion wars right away!
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can we have more religion wars? church on church crime
I would like that too but with a utterly overpowering Tymoran church I fear it may be tough to run in Arabel. In theory it should be the interest of a priest to win as many followers as possible. In the case of Arabel, I guess 90% or so are Tymorans so to be effective and go for the large audience, one would have to go against Tymora and I doubt Darmos would like that or even allow that since he is now not only the political but also religious leader of Arabel.
Or you could try to battle for the few non Tymorans who are most likely fanatics of their own religion already, otherwise they would have joined Tymora …