Why people complain about favoritism
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Heres a example.
A DM has some NPC make a sending that eveyrone can hears about something.A couple of us show up, and are informed by watch Faction people that we cant enter the transition, its under "investigation"
so we leave.
15 minutes later, you stumble onto another transition that leads to another area involved in this.
Sure enough, all faction people, and they toss you out with threats to arrest you.
Happens time and time again - faction people hoard stuff they find thats interesting.This is why so many people dont give a rats ass about "getting involved" and make statements about the "cool kids".
Instead, they just RP with each other and pretty much ignore the closed-off goings on that are irrelevant.Justify it however you want. Doesnt change squat all.
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Frustrating as it was, there may have been a reason. Could have been it was handled poorly in game or ooc. That doesn't speak for all events.
Ran something last night by way of Npc sending and likely had 12-15 PC's respond and go. Just an example and some things are situational. Sorry you feel slighted.
There's plenty to do and get involved with! Infact I believe I have a plot running specific to your group.
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About this particular DM event…....We had really small work spaces. if 20 some odd guys showed up it would have been a sardine can packed.
And also I have quested many a times on DM events that was not faction restricted....Heck a few hours earlier an orc army attacked the Gates that everyone participated in.
Sorry if you felt left out......But how many Murder cases do you know in RL where the cops allows 50 citizens inside to look around?
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I, for one, complain about favoritism for entirely different reasons, thank you very much!
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Honestly, this is more a case of players being exclusionary more than favoritism. If only a certain select group had been told about it, and the rest of the player base kept in the dark, then it would have been favoritism. This sounds more like a case where players decided a smaller or select group was warranted, and worked to keep the rest out. Might have been better communicated by the DM running it, as far as what size group they were interested in running things for, as it becomes problematic when the number of players involved hits double figures. That said, it's possible the DM was setting things up or working in other areas, and not even paying attention to how the party was being composed and so had no knowledge things were going this way. Had you gotten a tell from the DM stating you were not welcome, or that this was for group A, and you should just move along, then I would call it a case of favoritism. What it seems to be is a standard case of player exclusion, which, while frustrating, is a fairly common event, due to a wide range of IC and OOC factors.
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This is more a case of people making a fuss over small things, events with more than 7 people in them are a headache for both players and dm's. The flood of text is so huge I don't feel like reading it anymore and if I stop reading, the rp lost all immersion what so ever.
If there are too many players for the amount of events going on, its up to the players to make more events for themselves -which they will obviously include themselves in- Problem solved, the mere fact that more than one person was turned away simply goes to prove that there was no shortage of people to involve in your own shit.
And if you can't get people involved despite there being plenty of people around, then the problem isn't that people aren't being allowed to get involved now is it?
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I, for one, complain about favoritism for entirely different reasons, thank you very much!
I.e. The acceptability and eventual triumph of the tone in the above post in every discussion on this topic.
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H always so bitter.
This stuff has been gone over time and time again. Even with the recent post by the team themselves, players always seem to find ways to put other players/DMs down cause they jelly over something or other in an obscure 10 year old online video game. Bewilders me. If people aren't satisfied about what they get out of what they put in, they either; a.) don't really put in anything, or b.) should probably worry about the state of their RL if it bothers them that much.
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@H:
I, for one, complain about favoritism for entirely different reasons, thank you very much!
I.e. The acceptability and eventual triumph of the tone in the above post in every discussion on this topic.
I'm beginning to see why the DM turnover rate is so high. I would not have to deal with such whining on a daily basis.
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@Duckroll's:
Plot hooks are what start plots off, usually by a DM approaching you with an NPC. If this happens to you, you should immediately secure the area with your faction buddies/minions and make sure nobody hears the conversation.
@Duckroll's:
Remember that with a large party there is more danger of someone mentioning the plot to other players, so you should aim to have a small and optimal group.
Fully legit imo
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I expect the playerbase to be rational in a case as this. There was no favoritism, but neither was everyone given an equal treatment in character. Why? Because in this scenario, where the Wyrm Guard was investigating a murder case, they were in a key role, and they pulled the strings in order to see the case solved.
That said - Be considerate of those around you on the quest. Ask yourself what it'd make you feel when someone barred you from entry. Sure, if it's your job to keep people away for IC reasons, do so, but dont kick him out just for the sake of winning. In this situation, where there was a number of Wyrm Guard present, one or two of them should stay with the crowd and keep them entertained, perhaps by giving them hints on what's going down or by interrogating them for some shady behaviour! Be goofy, to make things groovy for everyone.
For those barred from entry- as said in some of the above posts, unless a DM specificly told you not to come, you are absolutely welcome to participate on the said quest, no matter what a player tells you. Thing is, even though they may be forced to bar you from entry, it still doesnt mean you cant get involved- Be it by sneaking in, paying for information, demanding your presence on the scene or whatever. But dont cast the blame on someone or call it favoritism, if you're thrown out for IC reasons. Treat it ICly, and if you have OOC worries- talk with the DM present and they will tell you what's up.
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To specify:
Each time this comes up, whoever brought it up has their concerns not addressed, but derided as being invalid. Opinions are not objective. Disagreement on this specific topic is treated as whining, invariably. A few people pile on to show support for one position, as if to overwhelm the poster into having no validity.
I wasn't whining, but you did re-iterate my point.
I think that attitude, rather than the fact that people CAN have different opinions, is more at cause of bad blood than anything. People don't like having words put in their mouth, their views oversiplified in bad faith, and so on. This community excels at it, to be honest.
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Check the post above yours. And Mustache's. Unless you just don't WANT to listen to the answers given.
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"+1 for MY side".
Pew pew.
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@H:
To specify:
Each time this comes up, whoever brought it up has their concerns not addressed, but derided as being invalid. Opinions are not objective. Disagreement on this specific topic is treated as whining, invariably. A few people pile on to show support for one position, as if to overwhelm the poster into having no validity.
I wasn't whining, but you did re-iterate my point.
I think that attitude, rather than the fact that people CAN have different opinions, is more at cause of bad blood than anything. People don't like having words put in their mouth, their views oversiplified in bad faith, and so on. This community excels at it, to be honest.
Wrong. Games presented what he saw as favoritism, and at least two posts gave clear alternatives to the way things happened. One or two more said it was the players who excluded them, not the dms. The concerns were adressed. I'm assuming games just got frustrated about something ig and came here to rant, and will be over it tomorrow. Not sure what your beef is though.
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This. What you're doing right now.
We're not even saying different things. I didn't even say anything that conflicts with the people it is suggested I should listen to. I am offering an alternative view as to the reason there are recurring discussions on this topic, based on what personally strikes me as the most insulting thing about them; that they are insulting, because of the tone often taken to silence the whiner.
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Or could it be, that Games, Who has been here for AGES, knows this Community, its Functions, how DM and Player relationships work, made a post, with the hope of changing some attitudes, and recent behaviours that annoyed him greatly?
Last I played, I saw alot of what Games is talking about here. Perhaps instead of flaming him, acknowledge that someone gave him a bad experience, and next time your Faction Dude goes on a dm Quest, think "How can I make this the most fun for OTHERS", instead of thinking "How can I win the most?!"
Bad form dudes.
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instead of flaming
My thesis in a nutshell. I don't get why everytime I point something out it turns into a clusterbuck.
Granted there is only one post in this thread that follows the format I am talking about, because apparently I took the focus away. However, in threads that are about this, regardless of how the incident actually ends up being resolved, it remains that there is always a pile-up of posts belittling the poster's right to a different opinion. My use of the word "whiner" in my last post was very much sarcastic, because it's that kind of categoric language and labelling that often goes on (and did, in the one above).
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And when you've been given an exaplanation by -2- seperate DMs of what happened, you still keep ranting because you don't want to listen to what they have to say about it. I'm out, i sense trolling.
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Hi Guys
last night I had a few beers and logged into coa on a random noob account. I pressed .history and saw a sending that was probably for a DM type thing, so I wandered over to the area to see what was happening. I clicked a transition and wandered up to where the people were. Here are some observations:
This was probably the 232432 time this had happened to the players, so they were probably exacerbated by this point.
Nemantode tried to relieve the situation by spawning in a naked adventurer named lurker who wanted to see what was occurring too.
I felt like Nemantode was trolling me for a brief period of time
I was ignored by the players, except for a samurai who thought my character was a necromancer
Had I been sober, I would not have had the indecency to walk into an already flowing DM quest and disrupting the story Nemantode was telling.
Had there been no DM attention up for grabs I would have acted IC and not wandered into three houses randomly to see who lived there before traipsing through a sewer alone.
Nemantode explained to me via tell that everyone was welcome on his DM quest but the players involved had IC reason to keep it exclusive.
Now in hindsight, some advice for everyone involved:
DMs - a lot of this could be avoided by taking the players involved to an area that is inaccessible to stragglers after the beginning of the quest. If it is open to all, then maybe the end part could be set up this way so randoms still have the opertunity to join. Also sarcasm travels badly, my first instance when Lurker was spawned was who is this noob DM and who does he think he's mocking? Then I realised what he was trying to do, and followed by the tells was assured of what was going on.
Players on the quest - If your faction is going to hijack a quest for IC reasons, keep it light and actually talk to those insignificant weirdos that turn up. Perhaps Nemantodes suggestion of a guard posted to explain what was happening to the populace would have been a better option than you all descending below. At least take some time out to RP with the stragglers.
Random players that turned up, myself included - If a DM event is in full swing, maybe leave it alone? I know their fun, but perhaps we should ask ourselves if breaking the narrative of an event just to insert our characters into it is really justified? Are we really that important? Does wandering a sewer randomly looking for DM involvement really make sense if the DM wasn't present?
Basically everyone involved is a bit of a dick.