Recent out of character PvP
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CB, i was totally not defending such behavior. I was present at the scene and also found that outburst very unfortunate and inappropriate.
Petey is right, there is apparently a tension between people who are good at PvP and some people who suck at it. As they can't win IC, they bring the grudge OOC. Which is bad and breaks the rules.
That said, letting such people win now and then would reduce the tension significantly.I may sound like a devil's advocate here, but i'm really trying to find a solution. If you just tell those guys "chill and man up", nothing would change, right? :)
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So discussing it.
For me what breaks immersion is players rushing into combat for the sake of combat weapons drawn,to me that isn't fostering conflict and it isn't fun if i wanted that id be on an arena server(which i do play).
If you attack someone with a weapon you are trying to kill them..the fact you don't isn't because swords make good clubs it's due to an oc mechanic breaks immersion.
Someone wants to win so they hurl instant win magic isn't fun pvp and the magic should of killed but due to the oc mechanic doesn't breaks immersion.
That you guys that are clearly upsetting your victims seems to be a fact,maybe it's how your doing it that is putting peoples backs up or maybe they are all in the wrong.
Either way you should talk to those that have been offended or you just suck it up for me I tried to get others interested in opposing your group no one I spoke to in game was take from that what you will. :cry: -
Get over yourself Amy Veln, those pvp encounters simply happened by chance and not a single one of our group is "in it for the win" as you seem to be suggesting.
And saying anyone is rushing into combat for combat's sake means that you simply have no idea what you are talking about if you are suggesting this is what we do! EVEN if such was the case, which it is NOT, two wrongs would not make a right and again, it saddens me that you would even try to justify that it is okay jumping to out of character insults because you do not like something that happens in game that happens because of in character actions.Also, what this does is that it sows bad seeds in the minds of the people who DO try and make pvp fun, win or lose. Seeing those efforts met so many times (not all the time, many are indeed great sports, win or lose) actually suggests it might be easier to not give a f*** about trying to make ti fun because people care about the win (in the fact they cannot stand losing) and not the conflict or the fighting itself or the story that might come from it. That is also a very dangerous thing.
I find myself thinking that sometimes it might just be easier to just not give a shit about the players behind other characters but i do not want to think like that, and i don't. If i did i would not be making this post. I want to change the mindset that doing things like this is is accaptable in PvP because it is not, just like it is not acceptable to ruin someone's roleplaying immersion by walking up to characters and saying "LOL, GAY!". There's really no difference between the two.
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Dip even further into personal lashes and I'm locking this. Behave.
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i apologize, but the fact that instead of addressing this mindset that seems to be growing, someone instead makes veiled suggestions that me or those i am currently concepting with are out to ruin the fun for others by borderline griefing them, gets to me.
Maybe it -is- easier after all to just not give a crap about people's opinions if this is what you get for trying to address the issue. But is that what this server is about? I would like to think it isn't.
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I wasn't justifying so im sorry also if that is how it came across.
Think i'll end there as it just seems to be provoking more arguments. -
I would like to offer a bit of encouragement to the players to try and break immersion once in a while with tells and ooc communications, if for no other reason than to serve as a reminder that there are real people banging away at a keyboard behind the characters. We are all friends here. These characters we play are not real and only represent us in a small way for entertainment. I see a lot of complaining about the breaking of immersion, but really I think if there was a bit more communication between people here about their expectations we wouldn't have these quarrels. I know that if we were all sitting at a table playing this game that you would be a lot nicer to each other. CB mentioned just not caring about the folks on the other side of the screen as a solution - now we all know he doesn't mean that, but that sentiment tells me something. It tells me that you are taking things a bit to seriously. The insult tossing fellow was definitely taking things too seriously. If we were sitting at that table I mentioned, you could punch each other in the eye, then go have a beer ala-o'luthe's suggestion and everything would be ok. The anonymity of the Internet spoils this scenario, and perhaps lends itself to a tendency for behaving badly. Resist that tendency!
From time to time in my martial arts career I would have sparing students get out of hand. Someone would get crushed by his opponent and hard feelings would follow. That whole mentality went against the philosophy of my teaching of course, but it did happen occasionally. The cure was always the same, and it always worked - the out of hand individuals would get to go a round with the Sensei. It gave me something to do along with the incentive to stay ahead of my students in physical conditioning, and it gave them someone to try to beat besides each other. I know that on CoA we have plenty of top notch dms that would be more than willing to "go a round" with an out of hand individual. If role playing turns into a pissing match - summon the dms. They -will- solve the problem.
Sensei
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I think that Senseitravis has made some good points.. Take a read.
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I'd put Travis' comment in my signature if there weren't a limit. Well said.
This also reinforces my thought that we should have CoA bar meetups. :3
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Every PvP encounter I've had recently, in reference to people lashing out OOCly, has been from those not involved in the PvP. The particular players I've Pvped with, I've sent tells discussing it with them before hand. It is the Third Party OOC retaliations that have been the issue. If it is not your PvP then it is best to keep your reactions IC as it has most likely been handled between the players involved between said PvP, or will be handled. No one knows, besides the parties involved whether or not there has been prior conflict, but said 3rd parties assume it is simply OOC harassment on the attackers side with no IC reason, based on an IC Personality. This is wrong.
If you believe it to be a case of OOC harassment, ask the player privately and then refer them to take appropriate actions, instead of assuming and taking matters into your own hands OOCly. It is simply not your place to do so and takes away from the experience.
If Ive lost a PvP interaction, I would simply keep it IC. Move on and give a new goal to my char to become stronger. Which is what I've done on my current character. If I die, I thank the player for a good battle, congratulate them on their victory and concept for a new character. Bringing OOC hatred into a RolePlay game, where there is RolePlay, and not real life where what a character says is NOT an insult to the player, is simply not appropriate.
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In reference to my last post, this is not just limited to players. There are DMs that need to understand as well that jumping into an innocent altercation between two people, no matter the situation, makes you a third party. Even though it is your position to enforce rules, and diffuse tense situations, understanding the situation before making accusations and threats of punishment should be a priority. Listen to a player before making any judgment calls, otherwise it could be you, as a DM, that makes PvP not fun, even if both parties involved were agreed on with no harsh feelings.
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I think its also important to remember that when someone bothers to argue, fight, or even kill your character, they are taking time away from whatever else they might be doing to contribute to -your- story. If I go OOC after such a conflict, it's to thank them for the interaction.
As someone who has had the stuffing knocked out of them, and even had characters killed by no less than three of CB's characters (One day I will get to ride the BaneTrain!), I find myself feeling grateful towards him and others who opposed the character. They made mine a thousand times more fun to play.
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I wrote a long write up, then realized most of what I was going to say has been said several times in this thread already. One thing I did want to add, and maybe it will make a difference, is that next time your involved in a PvP event with someone, or a group of people, let the other side know that there are no hard feelings OOC. Not only will this make the other person feel better about there character and what they are doing with them, but it may also earn you some consideration in future PvP events. People aren't going to go out of their way to FD you if they know you're willing to let your conflict run its course. So everyone do your part and hug a PvPer.