Shadows



  • First circle: It is great. Highish AC, good AB for level 1, low hp, low damage but has poison which while low dc is effective for low level. Seems to do its job well for first circle.

    Second circle: Broken as per bug report. If unable to have ai fixed it is going to need to be redone. Currently it is nowhere near the same strength of other outsiders if not using shadow touch, and is outclassed enormously by every basic theme other than fire. Having it as a shadow is good, but lacking shadow touch it's going to need an on hit strength drain with a much higher DC to actually be capable of proccing. These are also lacking DR.

    Third circle: This just... doesn't work. It has two fear howls, which is good, because that is what shadow mastiffs are known for. The problem is they are dc 11 and super short duration. Second problem is that is two rounds they are howling and doing nothing else while being beat on. They have 16 ac and 39 hp with gsf conjuration bonuses applied and no DR or concealment. This makes them one of the weakest third circle summons barring oozes. Their hp alone is usually going to be less than the summoner. They do have medium attack and damage, but for an outsider it would be hard to find a second (and some first) circle basic summon that doesn't overpower this one. The risk doesn't match the reward.

    Honestly I'd suggest getting rid of this completely. Make the theme more about shadows and darkness and not animals. Make an invisible creature, apply the Darkness spell permanent vfx effect, and call it Living Darkness. Maybe a single casting of Fear spell. Give it some nasty str, con, or level drains on hit and negative energy. No physical damage, just negative energy damage and scary drains so that it can potentially kill quickly by draining to death like other shadows. Maybe even some spooky aura and typical concealment and DR stuff.

    Fourth circle: Same as second. If its ai is fixable then it can be a fair glass cannon and just do shadow touches but with a higher touch attack AB. If not change it and make a shadow assassin. Give that bad boy red eyes and glowy red sword with on hit strength drain, slap a death attack and good stealth skills and int on it, and apply the concealment and DR and turn resistance that shadows are known for.

    Fifth circle: Just remove the shadow attack. Even if shadow attack ai can be fixed, remove it. If a summon has shadow attack it will use that only and not any other attacks, and this was designed to be a melee monster. This is what I'd expect from a high risk high reward outsider theme otherwise and is more comparable to others. Although it doesn't have very good AB everything else compensates for it I think.

    For reference to the Shadow Attack: This ability is a touch attack which drains 1d6 strength. This means the shadows are great when teaming up on a single target, but get overwhelmed very quickly. That's kinda how shadows roll though. It makes it a little weird when like 12 str goblins with 5 hp take forever for them to kill but that's the tradeoff for also being able to slurp giants down and cripple them. If the AI can't be fixed for shadow attack then shadows will still need some form of noticeable and reliable drain, since their mere physical contact with matter causes its life to drain. Best way to replicate it is just a high DC strength ability score effect. Shadow attacks don't have a DC, and are stronger than the drain on hit, and can kill by the drain which the on hit cannot do. This is just a thematic compromise if shadow attack is unable to be made workable, and alas shadows will need to rely on physical damage and drain on hits to weaken instead of killing by drain.


  • Admin [DM]

    @Tempest-Rose said in Shadows:

    Second circle: Broken as per bug report. If unable to have ai fixed it is going to need to be redone. Currently it is nowhere near the same strength of other outsiders if not using shadow touch, and is outclassed enormously by every basic theme other than fire. Having it as a shadow is good, but lacking shadow touch it's going to need an on hit strength drain with a much higher DC to actually be capable of proccing. These are also lacking DR.

    Regarding AI: https://nodebb.cityofarabel.com/topic/49562/shadow-attack-breaks-ai/2

    Increased AC, HP and Dex v6706

    Regarding "These are also lacking DR": This is their hide/skin:
    d5e13662-59cc-4ee3-b0f8-43cfa0d0e97b-image.png



  • Could very well be all the stuff tested on just had +1 weapons then! Was a lot of low level stuff but I honestly don't remember what it was tested on at this point x.x


  • Admin [DM]

    @Tempest-Rose said in Shadows:

    Third circle: This just... doesn't work. It has two fear howls, which is good, because that is what shadow mastiffs are known for. The problem is they are dc 11 and super short duration. Second problem is that is two rounds they are howling and doing nothing else while being beat on. They have 16 ac and 39 hp with gsf conjuration bonuses applied and no DR or concealment. This makes them one of the weakest third circle summons barring oozes. Their hp alone is usually going to be less than the summoner. They do have medium attack and damage, but for an outsider it would be hard to find a second (and some first) circle basic summon that doesn't overpower this one. The risk doesn't match the reward.

    Regarding "dc 11 and super short duration": This is hardcoded. Sorry.
    Regarding "two rounds they are howling and doing nothing": Reduced to 1 howl
    Regarding "16 ac and 39 hp": https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm I used this when making them. [Shrug] Increased AC, HP, STR, Levels v6706


  • Admin [DM]

    Any testing on these since I reworked them?


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