Having Trouble Playing Evil
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Yeah, but in the Forgotten realms, it is ALL written down, quite clearly, decreed by gods, who serve Ao.
So there is no actual grey area.
There can be grey areas created by men in the game world, but they are wrong, and/or lieing.
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I don't have a problem with 100% Good and 100% Evil, but I think giving everyone and their mother the ability to 100% know something as Good or Evil is absurd. Also, I don't think there is any precedent anywhere in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting to support this. Why have abilities to detect Good and Evil when everybody knows? Why have clerics to interpret dogma when everybody knows? I mean, yeah, the presence of celestials, fiends, and the gods is real and felt in the Forgotten Realms, but not everybody is walking around with an angel, devil, or some other divine agent on their shoulder, at all times, saying, "This is good and this is bad."
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Your mis-interpreting what Moloch said criticalthreat.
He said people know they are doing evil or good.
When someone animates a corpse, they know it's evil, people seeing this happen would know it's an evil thing to do, unless they've been utterly brainwashed by some twisted priest or something.
He didn't say everyone can detect if people are evil just by looking at them, that's an entirely different thing. But when someone see's someone animate the body of their friends, and they start walking towards them, gruesome lifeless eyes stuck open, leering toward them with obvious intent on harming them, they know that person has dome something very evil.
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That's a more cut and dry scenario. What about a lord who strips his subjects of all their rights and executes any who defy him because he believes an orderly society, albeit freedom-less and merciless, is a strong society, a strong society is a safe society, and, thus, he and his society are good? According to Mr. Moloch, that rationale could not exist because he would just know he is evil. That, to me, is really boring and lame, and I don't think there is a precedent that says it has to be that way. I don't think there is a precedent that says only insane people don't know they are evil. There are lots of other ways for them to justify their actions to themselves and to other people, even though the gods, and the celestials, and the fiends will know otherwise.
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mm i think.. for most of the time…. when you have a evil ..or good character ... the PLAYER shoud know if is character is evil or good..... but is character dosent realy know and act as he think he have to for his own reason.. and will probably justify is action ....
I dont think someone do a evil action becose he want to do a evil action... he do it becose he feel it the right things to do....
exemple : when i play Erul'kan.. i was CE... Erul creat undeads and leave them close of the place he think Drows can come from... Erul summun deads Shevarash followers... Shevarash said there no peace until all the drows and Loth will be dead...so Erul bring back some dead Shevarash followers and tell them they didnt have finish them duty and they dosent have right to rest in peace.... Of course it evil to do such things... but in the mind of Erul .. he didnt think like this... But me .. the Players know it evil ...
Of course.. there exeption.. like the peoples with mental deseases who find pleasure to do evil action.. without justification...etc...
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If he executes people who are essentially innocent, it's evil, he'd know it was evil too. But he would believe it was the best thing to do, he might be damning himself in order to keep order, or 'protect' his people from a greater threat, but he would still know what he was doing is evil.
Which is different.
This has gone a good way off topic perhaps now, and descended into one of those good/evil discussions.
HALP?!
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As for Erulkan, if he had listened to practically any elven priests, he'd know the animation was still an evil thing to do, but again, he would be doing it because he thought it was the best way to achieve what he thought was best. These are characters that are essentially damning themselves 'For the greater good' in their eyes, but they have to be deluded or just stupid to not think what they are doing are evil acts.
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Erul Kan… was CN when i creat it.. but after couple of ''evil'' action, DMS change is allignement and he become CE... but he was still able to cast and Shevarash let hime use his power.... SO he was tinking he did the Shevarash will... and in is mind, evrything Shevarash want is good .. for hime... and for his kinds...
Shevarash is a CN god.. who dosent care about what evil and good..cause he probably know it not possible to destroye is enemies whitout make evil acts... and is resulte of his evil action will be good for is kinds...
Shevarash probably see how elvens are hunt in Cormyr and how Malar is powerful there... and after let Corellon and the rest of the Seldarines gods fail in them attempt to fight them enemies... he maybe decide ''Evil"" will be the only ways to fight evil.
eye for a eye is a white card at Magic the gathering.....
aneways.. we juste talk here. . it cool to have discustion about this .. i hope i didnt insult no one or make some one not happy.. ty for let me express my self.. it only my opinion..
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yeah, it's cool.
he maybe decide ''Evil"" will be the only ways to fight evil.
Sounds like we agree man.
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MM… ya your right..:)... that weird.. :D
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Halp is here!
I'll address this first -
Good and Evil… did i had those debate as a dm with players so often.. things is .. it all come from morals values, and none of us, value the same thing, or have the same views on morals, all depending on cultural difference or how one was raise up from birth, or from life experience... but down the lines, some morals have been written down.. though on by many intellectual or spiritual leader, whom decreed some of it base... wich in turn we try to live by, but it is also something one can feel deep down, we know what we do is wrong or right, depending on our gut feeling.. if not, then the sad new my friend is that you are a sociopath.. lol.
Your looking a the forgotten realms setting through the lens of post modern relativism. You can't do that. Good and evil are clearly defined through the dictates and doctrines of very real and present gods who often relate their will to their followers in no uncertain terms. There are also the rules of the game to take into account - this is a game… :wink:
Absolutes -
Think of good and evil in this setting as a non-negotiable standard. The insane, as mentioned previously, might not be aware of this absolute standard, but that does not mean that it becomes invalid. Alignment shifts will be reflections of actions in an FR setting.
To put it in other terms - in a RL setting ignorance of the law does not eliminate your accountability to the law. Good and evil are tangible, real things in FR. This is the law of the land.
For the sake of everyone's sanity, and a smooth gaming experience, I think we should assume that under most circumstances good and evil are known standards that are not negotiable. This will keep poor Zool from pulling his hair out, if nothing else.
There - I've either helped (halped) or made it worse.
End transmission
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We agree again Lanfear!
Anyways. Lets get back to talking about the OP folks.