Discussion: Roleplaying Charisma
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Comments on a recent poll have got me thinking about rollplaying Charisma.
It seems that there are three easy areas to consider.
Below Average Charisma: 6-8 points
Avrage Charisma: 9-11 points
Above Average Charisma: 12-18In this discussion I am looking for folks to share examples of how they have played a particular charisma with success or with abject failure. I'd also like to see warnings from people about what they don't like seeing.
One aspect that concerns me is people critisising the bad roleplaying of stats when, as far as I'm aware, people do not know the stats of other players. Some stats can be guessed, I know.
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From an example of my own, I've been playing a dwarf with average charisma, but with a chaotic nature. For me, this has developed into playing someone who can be charming and nice when things are going her way, yet, when her buttons get pressed, she starts to get angry very quickly. That's how I've put together her Average charisma.
This is how I have interpreted Average Charisma with a chaotic nature.
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Actually, I was under the impression that, on CoA, while bonuses were representing various degrees of ability with the various charisma-dependent skills, even a -1 already was a crippling penalty, i.e. there is a deeper gap between 0 and -1 than between 0 and +1.
In this regard, a 9 would mean someone already very handicapped, while 6 would be the equivalent of a deeply autistic person. -
No one would have guessed Gurmbach had 15 charisma.
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Actually, I was under the impression that, on CoA, while bonuses were representing various degrees of ability with the various charisma-dependent skills, even a -1 already was a crippling penalty, i.e. there is a deeper gap between 0 and -1 than between 0 and +1.
In this regard, a 9 would mean someone already very handicapped, while 6 would be the equivalent of a deeply autistic person.would you interpret average as 10-12?
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Charisma is one of those things that can effect so many different aspects its hard to narrow down. However, if I were to take a soldier type;
8-11 Likely not the type you want to lead, and will have trouble getting people to follow him.
12-13 can take over for a leader in a pinch.
14 + could likely make general and lead many war efforts with many followers.
The biggest problem Charisma has had as a statistic on CoA is that its hard to be charismatic without actually being charismatic in real life.
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I was under the impression that by D&D rulebook standards, the average for any stat is 12.
Personally, I think Charisma is a bit of a minefield. There's a lot of opinion out there on what it just might be, and I'm sure somebody will come along shortly saying that it's high charisma which makes their sorcerer so damn sexy and not much else.
However! I personally see charisma as:
A requirement for leadership skill.
Social / Verbal (Including public speaking, diplomacy etc etc)
'Looks' to some degree (whether this is beauty or an intimidating look, I don't know)There is the paradox though of the bluff/intimidate/persuade skills, which somebody with little to no charisma can pump up quite easily, so I do accept that there's plenty of wiggle room for thought on this.
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@Bolthor:
No one would have guessed Gurmbach had 15 charisma.
I guess so, although he started at 10 and always had skill points in persuade. He became difficult to understand after losing 2 CHA because of gurgles.
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There is the paradox though of the bluff/intimidate/persuade skills, which somebody with little to no charisma can pump up quite easily, so I do accept that there's plenty of wiggle room for thought on this.
Well that's the difference between a seedy used-car salesman and an inspiring general, though, isn't it?
Anyway, charisma's a tough one, but I've always assumed these characters that I watch lead others around have at least a requisite of 12. We have no way of knowing, so I'd like to think most operate on the honor system.
It's been said numerous times, but I'd like to think most people don't just abuse that and siphon a few points from that category for another and play along like it's no big deal and doesn't adversely affect their characters' abilities to communicate.
As is observed above, my biggest difficulty has always been differentiating between 14, 15, 16, 17 etc. I've played paladins, bards, rogues, and wizards all with their own charismatic appeal, but the area I struggle with is wondering how much is enough to inspire a certain deed or action.
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You lot are also forgetting that there are "three" social stats, on CoA, and three social skills. A sorc with 20 charisma, but 10 wis and int, wont lead anything. You may be an inspiration, and beautiful, but you wont really know how to use it properly.
I usually always throw at least 12 charisma into the pot on my characters, because i dislike being hindered socially.
That said, some may remember my old Bhaliiran Senior Retainer, Laura Greymourne. At her highest, she had 15 charisma, but she also had a persuade skill of 20, and bluff around 12 or so, at lvl 7. This to me, enabled me to be a serious silvertongue, and was the reason she almost always got out of the large amount of trouble she and Brunus made (Such as beating up witch hunters in Central Arabel etc)
The difference between 12 and 14 charisma may not be -that- big. But when you throw in the skill lvl in persuade, bluff and intimidate, then suddenly, you get a much broader spectrum.
Add to this the amount of wisdom and intelligence of the character, and suddenly, you get a much better picture of how charismatic a character really is. Charisma is the natural powers of human interaction. The skills represent the amount of energy, and, amusingly enough, skills in a particular field of social interaction that a character has.
Finally, wisdom and intelligence are the stats that represent how good you are at utilizing your natural gifts, and your skills of social interaction. -
ImpossibleOdds wrote:
There is the paradox though of the bluff/intimidate/persuade skills, which somebody with little to no charisma can pump up quite easily, so I do accept that there's plenty of wiggle room for thought on this.Well that's the difference between a seedy used-car salesman and an inspiring general, though, isn't it?
That's an excellent way of looking at it, I think. So long as you use these as 'markers', of sorts. That aspiring general could just as easily be the head of the mages or thieves guild, and so on.
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By the book, the average of any score is 10.5. I typically interpret that to mean the physical stats of your average commoner to be 11 and the mental stats to be 10. With that said, adventurers are not average commoners. The idea is that adventurers are not common, and therefore have stats slightly above normal, on average.
Charisma is defined as:
The measure of a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is percieved by others in a social setting.
An exceedingly beautiful woman with a mean personality would have an average charisma… at the same time an ugly man with a strong personality would, likewise, be average.
To have a stong charisma, the character should possess multiple traits, including (but not limited to) 1-physical beauty, 2-well spoken, 3-decisive, and 4-likeable.
But charisma is not the beat all to end all of stats. The car salesman and the general could very well both have high charisma, even the same score, with different levels of the qualities that make up the total charisma stat. At the same time, skills come into play as well. The car salesman could have average charisma, but he's well trained (maxed Persuade skill) in what he does. The general could be a complete jerk (low charisma) but be well educated in the unique set of skills that make him a good leader (persuade, intimidate, perform).
One thing I'd like to bring up (again) is that 8 CHA, while below average, is NOT low. The stat range normally extends from 3 to 18. An 8 is about as much below normal as a 13 is above normal. When individuals play rude, crass, disgusting, abusive, or exceedingly annoying characters, assuming they have to be that way because of an 8 CHA, they're actually playing closer to a 4 or 5. Eight might define someone who is a little unsure of himself whenever taking on a new task... or shy when in large groups or meeting new people for the first time.
Someone with a 16 on the other hand, should be easily the best people to follow. Obama, Oprah, Donald Trump, Patrick Stewart, Darth Vader... these are people who are exhibit multiple traits that make up Charisma. The few people who happen to have an 18 or better, those are the ones that the common people would be raising up on pedastals, writing books about, and creating holidays for: Ronald Regan, Winston Churchill, Gen. MacArthur, Martin Luther King, Jr.
End Rant,
Roger -
…Patrick Stewart?
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Yeah, 16 is BS. Patrick is at least a 20. He got knighted now too.
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@HarryMcScary:
…Patrick Stewart?
I was trying to think of someone outside of politics or the social media… I probably should have said Capt. Picard instead. (I wanted to say Sidney Portier, but noone would know who he was.)
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Even so, for the setting and because they are adventurers, 8 is low. Outside of a terrific amount of skill points exhausted or a race/subrace that absolutely gimps a character's charisma, there is no way a character with a charisma score of 8 should be leading anything - at least for long. The exception to that rule would be if the ones following said leader were as much as, if not more, charismatically retarded.
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One staple I like to associate with Charisma is:
Ability to induce reactions/emotional changes/lasting impressions in others, deliberately.
This in itself is an ambiguous statement, but I think it says it pretty well. The key word here is deliberate. Whether you do that with looks, charm, pure wit of tongue, whatever; this ability is determined by Charisma I feel. It doesn't necessarily mean well-liked; a rogue with good Charisma could very well have the ability to make himself despised, feared, and infamous with preconceived intentions, the same with a feared Tyrant.
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@Rage:
One staple I like to associate with Charisma is:
Ability to induce reactions/emotional changes/lasting impressions in others, deliberately.
This in itself is an ambiguous statement, but I think it says it pretty well. The key word here is deliberate. Whether you do that with looks, charm, pure wit of tongue, whatever; this ability is determined by Charisma I feel. It doesn't necessarily mean well-liked; a rogue with good Charisma could very well have the ability to make himself despised, feared, and infamous with preconceived intentions, the same with a feared Tyrant.
Agreed. (My choice of the word "likable" in my rant was probably a bad one, but it got the point across.)
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In my oppinion, from what people have said, they see charisma as -the- leadership stat, where as I agree it is only part of it.
Personally, I cannot play leader-like characters. But I like to think I can play high charisma characters. Dante is my most charismatic character by far, and I play that most often as him simply being able to get the reaction he wants out of people, most of the time that being them liking him (Which he gets a lot, or at least on the surface about 80% of characters seem to like him.) He knows how to act to appeal to different characters, and different social settings. However, while I would definately say he wouldn't be a bad leader, he has never exelled at it. On the other hand he's handicapped by social skills being cross classed, so I effectively have few points in them.
As has been said, overall charisma is a tricky stat. To me charisma -may- play a part in many things;
Aesthetic appeal: A charismatic character may not have been born beautiful, but they would likely best know how to show off their best assets, and make up for their losses, weather it be from how they hold themselves, how they walk, the makeup they wear, or the clothing.
Confidence: Even if they critisize their ability in private, a charismatic character would likely have the ability to seem confident, without seeming overly arrogant or fake. Again, this could be represented through any number of things; stances, fierce gaze, etc etc.
There are many more things, but they all essentially tie in together. Knowing how to addapt to social settings. It is however the players choice on HOW their charisma affects the way their character may addapt.
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The way I see it, a guy with Charisma 8 can be many things. Creepy, a bit shy, lone wanderer, someone who prefers to follow others, someone who has no idea how to behave in a social setting.
I usualy play characters with 8 to 12 charisma. If I want a character with a friendly smile, I would go for 12.
If I want a creepy guy, I would go for 8 or 10. My first ranger was a loner, and he rarely interacted with others, he had only 8.
If I want intimidating character, or persuasive, I would invest heavily in skills.
A mercenary, who doesn't give a crap about bowing to royality, or talking to ladies like a real gentleman, he could easily have 8 to 10 charisma, without crippling his ability to lead others in battle.