Coa is not pw story/rp anymore. Its pw action/story lite.
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Coa is not pw story/rp anymore. Its pw action/story lite.
Quite an inflammatory quote, but one I'm beginning to agree with more and more.
Back in the day's of V3 there was a general misconception amongst the player base that the DM's were unapproachable and that closed off cliques of players got all the love. Whilst this was a misconception, it did lead to numerous players believing that the only entertainment they would get from CoA was from one another, so players worked hard to create immersive characters that felt like living beings from moment to moment. We took things slower because the server's plots progressed slower. We didn't feel as though a 30 minute conversation would make us miss out on the fun of a DM quest, or that all important, time constrained meeting that if we fail to come to will stall a plot for an extra day. We found our fun in that 30 minute conversation and because of it we created an immersion that made me fall in love with CoA. Of course, we whined and whined OOCly about how it wasn't fair that nothing ever changed, some people were perceived as "favourites" and we wanted things to be different.
Well, we got what we asked for, that's for sure. Over the past few years the DM's have become more approachable and we've basically got what we wanted. A server that is dynamic and affectable by pretty much anyone that wants to try. There are plot guides and advice that has broken "affecting the server" down into a fundamental pseudo-science, where any player can learn that by doing A, followed by B you'll be able to accomplish C. Though what have we lost along the way?
Due to RL I've not had the time to really play CoA as much as I used to but I still get the craving from time to time for a bit of RP and story so now and then, when it hits me really hard, I'll create a new character with a secret account and log in. Generally I plan on playing for a whole weekend or several hours but usually end up logging out an hour later disappointed and disheartened, much like today.
PC's run past, ignoring the goings on around them as they try to get from A to B to accomplish C. People use OOC more freely than ever before, so much so that 50% of my interactions with characters who do not know me or my character involve it in some way or another. I can't help but feel that this mediocre level of immersion is due to people feeling that, for example, "this conversation doesn't further my characters goals. I must finish it as quickly as possible whilst still maintaining a veneer of RP and characterisation so I can go do A or B before I log out tonight, otherwise I'll never be able to do X DM event on the weekend!"
Bearing in mind that I'm using secret accounts and usually walking around in the commoners tunic, what sort of impression do you think we are giving to new players here? Those that hop in seeking real RP and are presented with half-hearted, shallow interactions are going to be disappointed and leave, whilst those who are just looking for something to do will think "that's how it's done" thus beginning to act like that themselves, continuing the problem.
What are your thoughts and if you agree, can you think of anything that can be done to reverse this?
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I tend toward the "disagreeing 100%" camp.
CoA is, today, more story oriented than ever before in its history. The bad guys can actually win. Actions have meaning.
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Actions may have meaning but simple interactions and characterisation don't as much as they used to.
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PW story doesn't mean conversing…
I mean...Lord of The Rings is a pretty badass story and the only time they have conversations is during or leading to action...
Just because there is also action does not mean there is no story. It's hardly one or the other.
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I agree 100% with Ordinath. While CoA as a server has improved consistently in many ways, I too feel that all too often I am interacting with a bland, two dimensional character thats created to pursue conflict for conflicts sake, or A&I. And while they might accomplish that, and have great impact on the server in the process, the interaction with the characters are very to the point, and devoid of life, and immersion, as if as Ordinath said that would be a waste of time.
For me real, and immersive characters, ones that my own has been able to bond, and "grow" with have made the A&I portions of coa all the more enjoyable, as I feel I am sharing these adventurers with "real" characters, ones that have history, and joint character development acting as the bond that makes the success mean something to them, as opposed to propped up two dimensional avatars.
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So what ordinath ans Savn are basically saying they are not satisfied with the level of RP other players are emitting.
Should we just ban all these people?
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So, all the people in the Thuer Everae that you've been involved with, amongst others like Novo Mundus; these are boring two dimensional characters?
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So what ordinath ans Savn are basically saying they are not satisfied with the level of RP other players are emitting.
Should we just ban all these people?
We should encourage them to up their game.
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I haven't seen Ord in game for a while, maybe I've just missed him, I'm really rather surprised to hear this coming from Savn though. Server seems the same as it always has been to me. There's great characters around, and there's boring ones too. Maybe you're just not looking hard enough.
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Thats quite a leap in reasoning Glow, and in general not one constructive to this conversation, and topic. However, to answer you, the reason I spent as much time with certain members of the Adventurers Guild, and and the Theur is because with them I felt I was interacting with real characters, not the other way around, as you somehow reasoned.
Also, I dont think this should be taken as an insult, or slam against other players so much as an examination if this is a valid concern, and if it is, is it one that is healthy for the server, and the prolonging of its lifespan.
As a community I hope we are capable of civil conversation, where concerns, even touchy ones can be voiced, and discussed without it getting personal.
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The way the topic was phrased, it seemed like the complaint was about the servers focus. I would argue that the server's focus has indeed changed to A&I, but that in no way detracts from RP. It simply gives it a direction. I still find myself just sitting and RPing on occassion, but the -focus- is to advance plots and try to get involved.
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@Bolthor:
I haven't seen Ord in game for a while, maybe I've just missed him
Bearing in mind that I'm using secret accounts and usually walking around in the commoners tunic
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Well, we got what we asked for, that's for sure. Over the past few years the DM's have become more approachable and we've basically got what we wanted. A server that is dynamic and affectable by pretty much anyone that wants to try. There are plot guides and advice that has broken "affecting the server" down into a fundamental pseudo-science, where any player can learn that by doing A, followed by B you'll be able to accomplish C. Though what have we lost along the way?
I agree, the server's not the same as it was, and that quote rings true in my head. That entire chunk of player interactions is seemingly lying in a ditch somewhere back down the road because there is hugely more pressure and eyebrow-waggling going on constantly trying to push and pull people into plots and adventure and intrigue. That's fine and I agree these things are fun and good for the server in general, but perhaps they have been emphasised a little too much?
No, I don't have a miracle solution for it either, but it is an observation. I sat down to have a chat with someone regarding a plot and the only roleplaying was in how big their character's vocabulary was. There is of course, also good roleplaying going around, but what I am getting at is that the player-base has been rooted out from market-sitting and mob-questing in general just fine - however roleplaying has been left more or less to people's discretion. "Don't do something stupid (unless it's IC) and you're okay. Just concentrate on adventure and intrigue" as opposed to encouraging people to explore their own characters a bit more without giving them metaphorical silent stares as if by way of quietly wondering why they're not just playing the sims instead?
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Back in the day's of V3 there was a general misconception amongst the player base that the DM's were unapproachable and that closed off cliques of players got all the love.
Sadly I feel this is still the case. I've been in a couple of Fractions in my two maybe three years. Now that I'm not I feel doors have closed.
PC's run past, ignoring the goings on around them as they try to get from A to B to accomplish C.
I don't feel this will ever change. People want to have things before you make a name for yourself.
Or on the other hand ignore what isn't realitive to your character.
In RL do you stop and listen to ever conversation or mob you see? why do it here?
But this is just me.
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I think the problem is the same as its always been. Not everyone wants the same things out of the game. For me, Rping a character has ALWAYS been about saying witty things on my way to kill shit, fowarding plots on my way to kill shit, and maybe letting a little of my characters backstory out on my way to kill shit. While I have had my fair share of two hour meetings in say the basement of the pride, where its all about interaction, it has never been what I have looked for primarily out of the game. That doesn't mean hanging out and talking the whole time is a bad thing, its often good because it can create fun without any dms or quests involved. It just takes finding people who like to play like you, or even better, going the extra mile to catch the guy running past you and introduce him to your style of play. Who knows, you may make a conversion.
As a side note, Ord, I think your problem is what my problem is; modern Coa is a junkies game now (maybe it always was and I was just once a junky), and players with limited time for the server will get left out of the mix more often then not. I've just come to terms with it, and to be honest those that are still junkies are very helpful at trying to get me involved when I do have time.
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I've been having the same sort of problem myself, having couple back from a few months hiatus. I've lost where I stand in that time, and where I once knew I could find players that I enjoy playing with, things have changed ICly, and oocly. I think its also a matter of finding your character and dedicating yourself to it. In time you'll gravitate back to where you were. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
Prays for app success -
Im four dimensional.
Edit: Pointless, not adding to the conversation. No more stuff like this, ok?
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The development of a character's personality should be given importance equal to the development of a character's goals. Mr. Moloch's post about the Rock Star Gnome and DivisionByZero's post about character traits, character virtues, and character flaws should be referred to as often as the post about creating adventure and intrigue. Goals alone don't make characters interesting. The relationship between goals and personality makes characters interesting.
Some players get each part of the equation, creating characters who have goals that change the world and personalities that bring the world to life. Other players get one part of the equation, creating characters who have goals but no quirks that come from personality, or characters who have personality but no substance that comes from goals. Other players want to pwn n00bz and earn XPz. It's different strokes for different folks, but I know the type of player that I want to be (I'm not there yet.) and the type of character that I want to meet.
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I've noticed less ''story'' and more ''just crush shit'' going on, both as a player and as a DM. I've also noticed, and this is my opinion here, that there is much less of players going and doing thier own thing and much more just waiting for a DM to come along and do things for you.
It's part of the reason I don't play half as much as I used to.
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I think the server has picked up massively recently, I'm enjoying DMing far more than I used to.
Things are happening, the player base seems to be really good, I can flick around and see all kinds of cool stuff going on.