How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over
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@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@o-louth said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Just today, someone stated on discord "You cannot be a weaponmaster without knowing your mechanics". If PRCs are earned based on engine knowledge, and not on stories, we have a problem.
If you're going to present what i say in a bad light, at least use the entire quote.
[9:27 AM] Citizen Bane: Mechanics help story telling. Not the other way around (*By that i meant instead of hinder it)
[9:27 AM] Olouth: CB, I do not buy the mechanics help story telling.
[9:27 AM] Olouth: It is a means to an end.
[9:28 AM] Citizen Bane: No? How is someone who is shit at it going to roleplay a badass weaponmaster?I don't see "Cannot be a weaponsmaster" ... do you?
I'll even answer CB's question!
They'll take on students, who they 'teach' as a 'master' to use their blade They'll host contexts, tournaments, taking people to cool spots in the module to test their skills. They'll find IC means to enchant their blades via cool stories, DMs will shower them with rewards for good roleplaying and making fun stories (often as they talk over how to better do this with the help DMs want to provide).
No where in there will they have to be some master of mechanics who understands what the extra % to saves does vs the mind affect spell from monster Y on quest Z.
Another point came up about half-fiends spawning on a quest; DID you ASK the DM running it about it or bring it up? Or let it just annoy you and linger to create bad feelings? I do not blame people for bad experiences, or even not wanting to talk about them, but I will always say--I can't HELP if you don't let me.
Sorry but how do the mechanics not help storytelling in the instance you mentioned?
Because they just don't. You do not need to know ANY mechanics to do any of this. Honestly, its your biggest weakness as a player! You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests just to see how it goes to focus more on the story of a character struggling to survive than a fine-tuned killer who handles every battle with his technical skill. It'd be a fun experience for you to realize HOW wrong you are--because this is exactly how I play characters and part of how I became a DM here. I know it works. Heck, I've played mechanically gimped "rp builds' and done cool things with them, so give it a shot instead of just disagreeing it can't be done!
" You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests"
That's your opinion but i'm going to just be as brutally honest as you are being here and call absolute bullshit on this claim. Just absolute, 100% bullshit. You're obviously free to have your opinion but this is a statement more than an opinion and i'll be very frank and say you have no clue what you're talking about in that statement.
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@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@o-louth said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Just today, someone stated on discord "You cannot be a weaponmaster without knowing your mechanics". If PRCs are earned based on engine knowledge, and not on stories, we have a problem.
If you're going to present what i say in a bad light, at least use the entire quote.
[9:27 AM] Citizen Bane: Mechanics help story telling. Not the other way around (*By that i meant instead of hinder it)
[9:27 AM] Olouth: CB, I do not buy the mechanics help story telling.
[9:27 AM] Olouth: It is a means to an end.
[9:28 AM] Citizen Bane: No? How is someone who is shit at it going to roleplay a badass weaponmaster?I don't see "Cannot be a weaponsmaster" ... do you?
I'll even answer CB's question!
They'll take on students, who they 'teach' as a 'master' to use their blade They'll host contexts, tournaments, taking people to cool spots in the module to test their skills. They'll find IC means to enchant their blades via cool stories, DMs will shower them with rewards for good roleplaying and making fun stories (often as they talk over how to better do this with the help DMs want to provide).
No where in there will they have to be some master of mechanics who understands what the extra % to saves does vs the mind affect spell from monster Y on quest Z.
Another point came up about half-fiends spawning on a quest; DID you ASK the DM running it about it or bring it up? Or let it just annoy you and linger to create bad feelings? I do not blame people for bad experiences, or even not wanting to talk about them, but I will always say--I can't HELP if you don't let me.
Sorry but how do the mechanics not help storytelling in the instance you mentioned?
Because they just don't. You do not need to know ANY mechanics to do any of this. Honestly, its your biggest weakness as a player! You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests just to see how it goes to focus more on the story of a character struggling to survive than a fine-tuned killer who handles every battle with his technical skill. It'd be a fun experience for you to realize HOW wrong you are--because this is exactly how I play characters and part of how I became a DM here. I know it works. Heck, I've played mechanically gimped "rp builds' and done cool things with them, so give it a shot instead of just disagreeing it can't be done!
" You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests"
That's your opinion but i'm going to just be as brutally honest as you are being here and call absolute bullshit on this claim. Just absolute, 100% bullshit. You're obviously free to have your opinion but this is a statement more than an opinion and i'll be very frank and say you have no clue what you're talking about in that statement.
Feel free to disagree. I think you're just no idea how narrow-minded you are about play styles and how to play. There's a HUGE range of ways to play CoA and have fun that do not require making finely-tuned monster killing machines. You're certainly welcome to play that way, but you're frankly wrong to think you have to know mechanics to play a WPM. I answered your question, you just didn't like the answer and that's fine; not everyone will want to try another of the play-styles we welcome on COA. Since I DM here, I've tried all kinds of approaches to see what it feels like to be the player who craves X from the server. I just want you to keep having fun playing the way you play too. Calling it bullshit was a bit rude, so please avoid that if you can.
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I have to disagree with @Mr-Moloch about knowledge of mechanics not being helpful to roleplay. It's simply not true. If I didn't know mechanics I wouldn't be able to easily gauge when to hold back in order to make things more interesting for a character.
I wouldn't be able to facilitate the growth of less mechanically able, interesting pc's because I wouldn't be able to tell them apart from other interesting pc's. Behind every good pc with terrible mechanical knowledge you will find at least one mechanically able person who helped them along as much as they could.
I struggle to grasp the logic that mechanics isn't helpful to roleplay because of this, but it could be just a personal flaw of my own roleplaying philosophy.
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@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@o-louth said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Just today, someone stated on discord "You cannot be a weaponmaster without knowing your mechanics". If PRCs are earned based on engine knowledge, and not on stories, we have a problem.
If you're going to present what i say in a bad light, at least use the entire quote.
[9:27 AM] Citizen Bane: Mechanics help story telling. Not the other way around (*By that i meant instead of hinder it)
[9:27 AM] Olouth: CB, I do not buy the mechanics help story telling.
[9:27 AM] Olouth: It is a means to an end.
[9:28 AM] Citizen Bane: No? How is someone who is shit at it going to roleplay a badass weaponmaster?I don't see "Cannot be a weaponsmaster" ... do you?
I'll even answer CB's question!
They'll take on students, who they 'teach' as a 'master' to use their blade They'll host contexts, tournaments, taking people to cool spots in the module to test their skills. They'll find IC means to enchant their blades via cool stories, DMs will shower them with rewards for good roleplaying and making fun stories (often as they talk over how to better do this with the help DMs want to provide).
No where in there will they have to be some master of mechanics who understands what the extra % to saves does vs the mind affect spell from monster Y on quest Z.
Another point came up about half-fiends spawning on a quest; DID you ASK the DM running it about it or bring it up? Or let it just annoy you and linger to create bad feelings? I do not blame people for bad experiences, or even not wanting to talk about them, but I will always say--I can't HELP if you don't let me.
Sorry but how do the mechanics not help storytelling in the instance you mentioned?
Because they just don't. You do not need to know ANY mechanics to do any of this. Honestly, its your biggest weakness as a player! You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests just to see how it goes to focus more on the story of a character struggling to survive than a fine-tuned killer who handles every battle with his technical skill. It'd be a fun experience for you to realize HOW wrong you are--because this is exactly how I play characters and part of how I became a DM here. I know it works. Heck, I've played mechanically gimped "rp builds' and done cool things with them, so give it a shot instead of just disagreeing it can't be done!
" You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests"
That's your opinion but i'm going to just be as brutally honest as you are being here and call absolute bullshit on this claim. Just absolute, 100% bullshit. You're obviously free to have your opinion but this is a statement more than an opinion and i'll be very frank and say you have no clue what you're talking about in that statement.
Feel free to disagree. I think you're just no idea how narrow-minded you are about play styles and how to play. There's a HUGE range of ways to play CoA and have fun that do not require making finely-tuned monster killing machines. You're certainly welcome to play that way, but you're frankly wrong to think you have to know mechanics to play a WPM. I answered your question, you just didn't like the answer and that's fine; not everyone will want to try another of the play-styles we welcome on COA. Since I DM here, I've tried all kinds of approaches to see what it feels like to be the player who craves X from the server. I just want you to keep having fun playing the way you play too. Calling it bullshit was a bit rude, so please avoid that if you can.
No more rude than providing your opinion as fact on the matter, courtesy goes both ways! It also goes to show just HOW terribly you're misinterprating my statement about mechanics being helpful in telling a story. You're attributing me with something i NEVER said as i have explained many times in previous posts. Never once have i said you HAVE TO or YOU MUST and frankly, it's starting to get on my nerves that i am repeatedly being called out on something i have never said once.
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I don't read plot tickets. Just tell me what you wanna do.
i have read through almost all of this thread and this is the perhaps the most significant thing that stands out that from it all.
i play the game solely rather than being in discord or irc or on forums whilst i play, i dont have the facility to just grab a dm, so i have used plot tickets to tell the team what i am about etc
I am one of those people that have never liked bugging dms, though i always send tells to the dm channel whenever i go roaming about the place, and because (i assume that when they dont come to the dm channel tell they are busy).
essentially this comment about communication being key to progress is the best thing from the entire discussion i think, though i would welcome a comment from the dms about how we should do that, tells? chats in discord? messaging here? who should we message? etc
I
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I think most of us agree that contacting us directly via discord is the best and easiest way to reach us.
Puffy is the only one that stays up to date on plot tickets I believe, but if you’re providing documentation and link it on an app, it can be very helpful.
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@mozart-of-orcs said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
I have to disagree with @Mr-Moloch about knowledge of mechanics not being helpful to roleplay. It's simply not true. If I didn't know mechanics I wouldn't be able to easily gauge when to hold back in order to make things more interesting for a character.
I wouldn't be able to facilitate the growth of less mechanically able, interesting pc's because I wouldn't be able to tell them apart from other interesting pc's. Behind every good pc with terrible mechanical knowledge you will find at least one mechanically able person who helped them along as much as they could.
I struggle to grasp the logic that mechanics isn't helpful to roleplay because of this, but it could be just a personal flaw of my own roleplaying philosophy.
I didn't say it wasn't helpful! I agree with CB there.
I said its not NECESSARY at all Period. Full stop. We're a story-telling server. People who act like mechanics are a MAJOR factor of success rather than creating stories are part of the poison in this well that caused this conversation. Play an awesome PC with 0 knowledge of mechanics honestly behind click the red guy and you'll still get PrCs, cool loot, roleplay tokens to gain more XP and much better rewards and perks than the guy who relies on mechanics to gain those things in the long run.
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@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mozart-of-orcs said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
I have to disagree with @Mr-Moloch about knowledge of mechanics not being helpful to roleplay. It's simply not true. If I didn't know mechanics I wouldn't be able to easily gauge when to hold back in order to make things more interesting for a character.
I wouldn't be able to facilitate the growth of less mechanically able, interesting pc's because I wouldn't be able to tell them apart from other interesting pc's. Behind every good pc with terrible mechanical knowledge you will find at least one mechanically able person who helped them along as much as they could.
I struggle to grasp the logic that mechanics isn't helpful to roleplay because of this, but it could be just a personal flaw of my own roleplaying philosophy.
I didn't say it wasn't helpful! I agree with CB there.
That's literally all i've been saying despite people's best attempts to twist my words.
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@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@o-louth said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Just today, someone stated on discord "You cannot be a weaponmaster without knowing your mechanics". If PRCs are earned based on engine knowledge, and not on stories, we have a problem.
If you're going to present what i say in a bad light, at least use the entire quote.
[9:27 AM] Citizen Bane: Mechanics help story telling. Not the other way around (*By that i meant instead of hinder it)
[9:27 AM] Olouth: CB, I do not buy the mechanics help story telling.
[9:27 AM] Olouth: It is a means to an end.
[9:28 AM] Citizen Bane: No? How is someone who is shit at it going to roleplay a badass weaponmaster?I don't see "Cannot be a weaponsmaster" ... do you?
I'll even answer CB's question!
They'll take on students, who they 'teach' as a 'master' to use their blade They'll host contexts, tournaments, taking people to cool spots in the module to test their skills. They'll find IC means to enchant their blades via cool stories, DMs will shower them with rewards for good roleplaying and making fun stories (often as they talk over how to better do this with the help DMs want to provide).
No where in there will they have to be some master of mechanics who understands what the extra % to saves does vs the mind affect spell from monster Y on quest Z.
Another point came up about half-fiends spawning on a quest; DID you ASK the DM running it about it or bring it up? Or let it just annoy you and linger to create bad feelings? I do not blame people for bad experiences, or even not wanting to talk about them, but I will always say--I can't HELP if you don't let me.
Sorry but how do the mechanics not help storytelling in the instance you mentioned?
Because they just don't. You do not need to know ANY mechanics to do any of this. Honestly, its your biggest weakness as a player! You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests just to see how it goes to focus more on the story of a character struggling to survive than a fine-tuned killer who handles every battle with his technical skill. It'd be a fun experience for you to realize HOW wrong you are--because this is exactly how I play characters and part of how I became a DM here. I know it works. Heck, I've played mechanically gimped "rp builds' and done cool things with them, so give it a shot instead of just disagreeing it can't be done!
" You have no idea how to play without mechanical knowledge, sometimes it pulls down your ability to just tell a story. Its one of the points I'd love to see you develop, play a character that isn't a murder-machine on quests"
That's your opinion but i'm going to just be as brutally honest as you are being here and call absolute bullshit on this claim. Just absolute, 100% bullshit. You're obviously free to have your opinion but this is a statement more than an opinion and i'll be very frank and say you have no clue what you're talking about in that statement.
Feel free to disagree. I think you're just no idea how narrow-minded you are about play styles and how to play. There's a HUGE range of ways to play CoA and have fun that do not require making finely-tuned monster killing machines. You're certainly welcome to play that way, but you're frankly wrong to think you have to know mechanics to play a WPM. I answered your question, you just didn't like the answer and that's fine; not everyone will want to try another of the play-styles we welcome on COA. Since I DM here, I've tried all kinds of approaches to see what it feels like to be the player who craves X from the server. I just want you to keep having fun playing the way you play too. Calling it bullshit was a bit rude, so please avoid that if you can.
No more rude than providing your opinion as fact on the matter, courtesy goes both ways! It also goes to show just HOW terribly you're misinterprating my statement about mechanics being helpful in telling a story. You're attributing me with something i NEVER said as i have explained many times in previous posts. Never once have i said you HAVE TO or YOU MUST and frankly, it's starting to get on my nerves that i am repeatedly being called out on something i have never said once.
If you have a problem, take it privately. This is getting off-topic now. Though, I understand your frustration--must feel a bit like this whole thread is aimed at you since you're one of the most mechanically driven players on the server. Its just not personal though, you're merely wrong because on CoA--my opinion on what you need to get a PrC for example isn't opinion; it is pure fact. I know what gets approved and what doesn't because I'm part of the team that approves applications. So you're a bit worked up, we can talk it out though if you need!
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@cadiz_stoker said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
though i would welcome a comment from the dms about how we should do that, tells? chats in discord? messaging here? who should we message? etc
I
Everyone is on Discord. All DMs and 90% of players.
If you are not on Discord, you are nerfing yourself and your plots. Its really the best way to get DM attention other than Tells.
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@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
I said that mechanics HELP storytelling if you're good at them...
Yeah, I agree. If you can use them well it can be ace.
There's probly a few examples I can think of, for instance.
If you know you could win a straight up fight with a group of characters in PVP or something, you can actually use that to do cool stuff like, control the fight, and "escape" cursing them, leaving some kind of clue.
Or know your Animal empathy mechanics, and set up a series of challenges for some others players using them (if you really know your mechnics, you can also leave caches of useful potions/items to use against those specific enemies you left along the path)
Having the ability to defeat a powerful monster you led a group to using your mechanics knowledge also allows you to bring a group out for training, while they know you'll be able to step in and save them if things go south.
There's actualy a lot of examples where mechanics can help to tell stories or create events.
It's how you choose to use the mechanics that matters, and how creative you can get with it.
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@mr-moloch said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@citizenbane said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
@o-louth said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Just today, someone stated on discord "You cannot be a weaponmaster without knowing your mechanics". If PRCs are earned based on engine knowledge, and not on stories, we have a problem.
If you're going to present what i say in a bad light, at least use the entire quote.
[9:27 AM] Citizen Bane: Mechanics help story telling. Not the other way around (*By that i meant instead of hinder it)
[9:27 AM] Olouth: CB, I do not buy the mechanics help story telling.
[9:27 AM] Olouth: It is a means to an end.
[9:28 AM] Citizen Bane: No? How is someone who is shit at it going to roleplay a badass weaponmaster?I don't see "Cannot be a weaponsmaster" ... do you?
I'll even answer CB's question!
They'll take on students, who they 'teach' as a 'master' to use their blade They'll host contexts, tournaments, taking people to cool spots in the module to test their skills. They'll find IC means to enchant their blades via cool stories, DMs will shower them with rewards for good roleplaying and making fun stories (often as they talk over how to better do this with the help DMs want to provide).
No where in there will they have to be some master of mechanics who understands what the extra % to saves does vs the mind affect spell from monster Y on quest Z.
Another point came up about half-fiends spawning on a quest; DID you ASK the DM running it about it or bring it up? Or let it just annoy you and linger to create bad feelings? I do not blame people for bad experiences, or even not wanting to talk about them, but I will always say--I can't HELP if you don't let me.
Personally Moloch, my -first- character here on the server was a character I hoped would someday be a weaponmaster. His name was Guth Blutklinge, a Half-Orc.
Everyone told me that to be a weaponmaster, I needed to be not just 'a' good fighter with my weapon, but 'the' fighter.
I had really good fun RPing his thrill for battle, his views about his weapon was more of an 'art' to him than simply a mean to an end.
I ended up ditching the concept after dying 3 times in a row during a war event against orcs and drows. I just assumed he had died during that war, wouldn't make any sense for him to be seen a 'the' fighter if the way I was playing him, he would always lose his fights.
With him, I made a lot of duels. All these small hafling bravos with daggers always got the best of him, I don't even recall ever winning a duel, exept that one half-orc guy who proceeded to log out right after.
What I mean is, unless it has changed, you require some sort of mechanical prowess to reach certain things.
I must say though that RIGHT NOW, I adapted my character to better fit what I like playing. And I'm having a blast with the current stories, have only good words for DM and player supports. But I do know that I won't attempt a weaponmaster concept anytime soon. :D
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Shark's 2 cents.
There's stuff you can only do if you're strong with mechanics. Like being a criminal, or some badass-halforc. But just because you're good at mechanics, doesn't mean you have to not do any RP. Sure there might be other ways to solve conflicts, but PvP is an integral part of the server as far as I am aware, which means that mechanics, and the grind for gold/supplies will always be important. (that being said i'm a liiiiiitttlllleee guilty of questb4rp atm)
If some of my most prominent pcs hadn't been as "powerbuildy" as they were, I wouldn't have gotten away with half the stuff I've done.
I don't see how we can truly eliminate not needing to be strong at mechanics if anyone wants to drive some kind of conflict, which is what makes the game interesting.
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Another note: the server recently has strayed afar from DM-Plots to more player-based plots. While I can see why this is done, I feel that it has hurt the server, since player plots will conflict with each other, thus whoever has the strongest group wins. The only DM plot I currently know about is Arkham's Dwarven plot, but that's moreso just wrapping up what was already around from before.
We've lost a number of DM factions recently, Old Town was turned into some strange Player Plot Faction thing that was left half-finished. There's too much politics between players, and less feeling of threats or conflicts that should be happening in a D&D Universe. This drive to player-based stuff leads to "may the best mechanically suited group win." While yes, the DMs help push these player plots... it often feels exclusive in some ways, and very momentary. I miss the good old days (not that old really) of dragons fighting for supremacy and their servants fighting each other to gain a leg up, villainous necromancer npcs storming the city and conflicting with the Bretheren, crazy fey barons holding festivals and messing with the cityfolk, etc.
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@sharkinajar said in How the ”Plot wheel” broke, and the “Winner mentality” took over:
Another note: the server recently has strayed afar from DM-Plots to more player-based plots. While I can see why this is done, I feel that it has hurt the server, since player plots will conflict with each other, thus whoever has the strongest group wins. The only DM plot I currently know about is Arkham's Dwarven plot, but that's moreso just wrapping up what was already around from before.
The phaerimm and shade dragon with beholders running amok definitely is not a DM plot. Nope.
Neither is the hag plot, fey plot and surely a few others I am not involved in.
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So.. personally I like to avoid posts like this and just reap the rewards of the collective yields from positive discussion on some of the pros and cons of COA. You're all people I respect and over the years have come to admire for the raw storytelling potential you all help to enrich in this medium.
There has always been a divide on Arabel between the Weak and the Powerful. There have always been those who prefer mechanical builds apposed to what some call "RP builds." Personally, I see this as kinda realistic. There are definitive breaks in status. There are incredibly powerful villains in the world just as there are incredibly weak ones. Its hard when we build a character up in our heads and then see them fail to something as trivial as less charisma, or whatever skill, loot, whathaveyou. But as shotty as that is, it's a huge part of the world we've all contributed to.
You can't have the tough guy without -some kind- of support. I had a discussion the other day with some people, and we all collectively decided that without -SOMETHING- behind the character, supporting it, there is no reason for the actions to have weight. Be it raw power, allies, or equipment, we need to add support to ourselves to create the changes/affect the environments we want to change. This was often referred to as adding INTRIGUE to your Adventure..
I understand that a lot of folks feel that COA has boiled down to winners and losers, and I've privately put forth my suggestions on how to remind players that RP comes first (pass or fail) on servers like COA. It may be that after such a long period, it feels as if LooT=Validation, and succeeding in your faction means you're doing well roleplaying.. But that's just not the case. There have been so many amazing 'losers' in the past and presently I don't see a difference. What I do see differently, is our appreciation for the guy who lost. We need to remember that our successes are at the mercy of other players willingness to log in and enjoy the loss as much as the victory.
Secondly,
I really don't understand this emphasis on types of plot.If we're immersing ourselves in a story, we need to understand collectively that stories are told in different ways. Some are more direct, some overarching, and some subtle.
I really don't know, nor care about what is or isn't a DM plot these days.
Anyhow, just like, my opinions, man.
-Rick -
Nice! Well said.
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D&D is a game, games have rules. People who are familiar with the rules of a game have an advantage. You can both play and enjoy a game without knowing every single rule in it, but an advantage is an advantage.
This will never change, so long as coa is a game that has rules in it, those who familiarize themselves with them will have a slight advantage.Those who don't want to read the rules, or to have the rules read to them shouldn't have to, but you can't really talk about a game without talking about the things that make the game....a game (its mechanics)
So hanging out in a chatroom dedicated to a game and expecting people not to talk about it, or getting frustrated about it is silly.The mentality where mechanics and rp are completely mutually exclusive and that you can't have both, or enjoy both. Or that being good at one means you can't be good at the other. That's a bad way to see things, I can't imagine someone'll have a good time on coa if they adhere to that thought process too strictly.
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This is being brought up AGAIN?! Holy cow. I was tempted to jump back on CoA to fill time in the week between D&D but I am not so sure about this.
From what I am reading, Moloch, you know I respect you a lot as a person and a DM, but I think you need to take a step back and look at it like this mate. This argument shows up every 6 months, and everyone always passes off some finely veiled excuse and it gets brushed under the Lock button. These are some of the most loyal players I've seen posting these. People who have been around longer then I have and I'm going on the second half of my second decade since I started.
The fact that it's still going is a monument to the dedication, drive, and creativity of every player and DM who has graced this server. We talk a lot about the death of the server, but we never really discuss the Legacy.
The server is dying and that explains the player loss. Or so we have been told. Yet over and over we are hearing that players aren't leaving because they are bored with the game or they don't have time. Trust me. People make time.
I have talked to dozens of players, and several former DMs about their leaving. This reason became like a broken record to me.I don't actually think it's necessarily anyone's fault, nor is it anyone's responsibility alone. The reason I said you should take a step back, Moloch, is the same reason I think we should all take a step back.
Each and every one of us has contributed to this. And each and every one of us has the ability to fix it. We all have to be aware of how our energy is influencing the environment of the server. And if players, or DMs, are exhibiting signs of what is often the complaint, then the DM team should step in (Not that you don't.) Because in the end, the whole "We cater to all kinds of playstyles." is Bologna and we all know it. Some of the actions that players are allowed to get away with now would've been grounds for a ban back in v3 and earlier. Either way, this was never a server about the mechanical win, and the people who are playing like that don't like that playstyle, they just like to win. There are a million other games out there that provide competitiveness based on the sole mechanics of the game. Other NWN servers even. CoA wasn't in the past, should never have become, or ever drift into "That Mindset."
Essentially what you're doing there is saying "Okay kids, you guys play baseball for fun while a couple of adults play with you competitively." Which to answer your question, is why people don't play "Gimp-Builds." Because no matter how much story you push, how much adventure you encourage, or how much roleplay you do, as soon as you get semi-decent DM loot you're a target for someone to come in, kill you, steal it for "Plot," and then not push the plot. Which also diminishes the efforts of those who ACTUALLY try to be evil and add some legit RP conflict.
Anyway, I hope this was a bit calmer and more focused then the many rants I have written in the past. I may return, I may not. Either way, I wish you all the best of luck on figuring out the situations so we can eventually leave behind a City of Arabel that we remember fondly, rather then remembering it like the taste of rotten egg in our mouth.
Love always,
The Dripster! -
Erm. Server isn't dying.