Discussion
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I always saw permanent storage as a perk to be handed to those that involve people, excel in their RP and all, but lately I 've been thinking differently about it. If other servers of similar RP settings provide it from the beginning, it might have become a competition issue. People usually expect plot progression or specificly designed items for a certain purpose out of PC-DM interaction and usually storage comes as a bonus. Rarely anyone seeks it or does any plot related stuff particularly to get permanent storage. So I see no reason why that being a special perk would make players be more active about all the things DMs (and players) love.
If it does not promote the player behaviour this server favors, and the style of play most beneficial for everyone's fun, why not make it a service available to all, or just PC factions?
I know it may be a "set in stone DM policy" and I do not expect it to change, but some input on why is that if it really is not a main promotion for "great RP" would be welcome. I m pretty sure I miss something as a player here with a "microscopic" view of things, something DMs can see from a more "macroscopic" view?
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I consider it to be a basic service for any server which involves any significant amount of crafting. Considering that bags of holding are not allowing in CoA, this has always been a sticking point for me. I gave up on crafting in CoA partially because of overloading issues.
Furthermore, limiting "basic" services to people who need to work on something for 1-3 months, have a good TZ, attract DM attention, is not a basic service. It is a major perk.
Its just that in most servers, the bar is lower, you pay like 1000gp, not 100 hours.
Karlique Bank charges were ridiculous. It was barely used because everyone hated how it was implemented.
Edit: Very good point, Virruz. I would also make the argument that having widespread storage is completely in line with server policy of hubs. Having banks creates activity hubs for people. Locating crafting stations in these hubs further increases activity in these areas.
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We are working on ways to make things you will like become possible. The team is in general agreement with a lot of what's being said.
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The ability to rent rooms always has the drawback that it plays into the hands of those who can generate a lot of cash and not necessarily the interesting player factions, or the roleplay heavy concepts – so it’s not necessarily rewarding a commendable player quality. I mean there’s nothing wrong with making loads of cash, but I don’t think it should afford you perks otherwise unattainable.
I never really found persistent storage particularly useful or important, really only merchants or those lumbered with an excess of spoils ever have use for it – or as a means for factions with players in different time zones to pass an item between each other. A property though, a location, is brilliant – it shouldn’t be a safe haven but as a reward for dynamic groups you can’t beat it. You can incorporate it into your roleplay, dragging someone off to a dark hazy cavern with a slab of rock imbued with runes and blood is a far better scene setter than an opening in the wilds.
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Id like a series of… "Potential HQ's" placed around the server. An abandoned crypt, a hollow tree, a small cave, an abandoned house. Not necessarily with a Lock to them, but a chest with 5 stored items could be fun.
That way people can fight over these Places, use them... but they Arent safehavens without access.
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Great shout, used to be a fair few of these sorts of places dotted around, might still be! Used to love all the hidden little rooms in the sewers for instance. I think they would need shuffling every couple of months though, there’s always the temptation to find somewhere with one character and use it for another a few months down the line.
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@O'louth:
Id like a series of… "Potential HQ's" placed around the server. An abandoned crypt, a hollow tree, a small cave, an abandoned house. Not necessarily with a Lock to them, but a chest with 5 stored items could be fun.
That way people can fight over these Places, use them... but they Arent safehavens without access.
Yes this is a good idea isn't it.
<_<
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….. I think they would need shuffling every couple of months though, there’s always the temptation to find somewhere with one character and use it for another a few months down the line.
Shuffling with no good reason though, just causes massive frustration.
case in point - some of us once found a well-hidden trap door with a limited use chest. Apparently it got "shuffled" and removed a bit later, because no matter how good a rogue my char (same one who found it) dragged there, none of them could find it later. very frustrating, and it just removes confidence in continuity of the setting. If there is a hidden trap door to a area that the DMs want to remove… I'd strongly suggest leaving the door, perhaps just add a enormous picklockDC (like 100+) or perhaps let it have a description of "the area beyond now seems caved in". -
Id like a series of… "Potential HQ's" placed around the server. An abandoned crypt, a hollow tree, a small cave, an abandoned house. Not necessarily with a Lock to them, but a chest with 5 stored items could be fun.
That way people can fight over these Places, use them... but they Arent safehavens without access.
Shuffling with no good reason though, just causes massive frustration.
Yes! The exploration aspect of the server used to be so much cooler because of these, and because it was actually DARK at night. Also because of the lack of a grid-map, you had to go out for the areas to make sense, rather than being a matter of "up, left, up, left, up, up" to get somewhere. The darkness and grid aren't omnipresent but it looks like it's something the areas are moving toward in general, which I don't really like.
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Grid?
Darkness?
As for the talk of cool places to find that would be useful for role play and other such things, it's something I have a great interest in. If you have any ideas about such places, feel free to chip in. Even if the idea seems wild or your not sure it is possible.
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I dont want to see two dozen of said areas.
But I would imagine, an abandoned crypt, a hollow tree house, an abandoned forest encampment, an abandoned house, an old ruin room.
What matters most however, is not how many there are, but what they have of useful stuff.My list would suggest something Akin to:
A small persistant storage chest
A spawn post
Resting possibilitiesWhat matters most however, is that they have something Unique and cool. An old ruin, could have a portal with a password to it. An abandoned Wizards Tower could have some crafting stations. An old crypt could have the tombs of ancient Heroes (which would allow necromancers access to "player corpses for animation"). A hollow Tree House could have access to A cross Road System (Its a forgotten realms lore thing, which allows druids to access one way portals once invented by the fey), A cave could have access to the Underdark, or to a nest of direbears.
Basicly, they should have a theme, something which makes them useful and something which would have people fighting over them.
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Or a spawn point to monsters neutral towards people who make home of the place. ;)
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I have no intention of making tonnnes of this kind of thing, if I did, no one would fight over them, and everyone would just chill in their little bubble with their buds.
And well, that's not really the kind of thing I'm massively interested in DMing for.
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I have no intention of making tonnnes of this kind of thing, if I did, no one would fight over them, and everyone would just chill in their little bubble with their buds.
And well, that's not really the kind of thing I'm massively interested in DMing for.
I agree completely.
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@O'louth:
I dont want to see two dozen of said areas.
But I would imagine, an abandoned crypt, a hollow tree house, an abandoned forest encampment, an abandoned house, an old ruin room.
What matters most however, is not how many there are, but what they have of useful stuff.My list would suggest something Akin to:
A small persistant storage chest
A spawn post
Resting possibilitiesWhat matters most however, is that they have something Unique and cool. An old ruin, could have a portal with a password to it. An abandoned Wizards Tower could have some crafting stations. An old crypt could have the tombs of ancient Heroes (which would allow necromancers access to "player corpses for animation"). A hollow Tree House could have access to A cross Road System (Its a forgotten realms lore thing, which allows druids to access one way portals once invented by the fey), A cave could have access to the Underdark, or to a nest of direbears.
Basicly, they should have a theme, something which makes them useful and something which would have people fighting over them.
Very cool idea :)
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Basically, it's an idea of HQ that you can find and claim for yourself willy-nilly vs. HQ that's given to your group specifically for achieving something important in terms of RP. Having played on servers with both paradigms being implemented I have no doubt that the former variant is not only inferior overall but will actually be harmful to this particular server as we know it.
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Basically, it's an idea of HQ that you can find and claim for yourself willy-nilly vs. HQ that's given to your group specifically for achieving something important in terms of RP. Having played on servers with both paradigms being implemented I have no doubt that the former variant is not only inferior overall but will actually be harmful to this particular server as we know it.
Utterly disagree.
a HQ that's "given to your group" has historically been something that you need a specific key, wanding, etc to get into.
That promotes sitting on your ass in it. Or it being a exploitive sure-fire getaway place. (that's happened before)a "open" HQ, that anyone can find, with a hard, but possible way to get into it promotes all sorts of interaction, such as spying, multiple groups using it, possibly to their detriment (For instance, maybe theres not one, but THREE storage chests, with two of them extremely well hidden ini different hidden areas.. or possibly, as someone pointed out, "themes". The hidden area inside a cave that often is undead infested due to the "Blue Mage" has not just a normal hidden area with a 3-space chest but also contains it's own further hidden area that is only visible if the the person searching for it has a "blue" light. or a different one if it's found with the help of a "red" light.
That could lead to different groups using it, not even realizing it, until they happen to meet and get into a rather rude discussion. -
a "open" HQ, that anyone can find, with a hard, but possible way to get into it promotes all sorts of interaction, such as spying, multiple groups using it, possibly to their detriment
I know at least half a dozen such places that are already there, generally unused. Two of them have persistent chests.
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Yeah, places where you can just wander in don't really work out so well, as no one trusts a storage chest anyone can access. And having only way in is a key is also a poor design for such things (though the theft of a key is quite possible, making it the least interesting, but still valid method)
Theres a few design elements to think about when making such a thing.
Also, if such things were implemented, it wouldn't be a replacement, you'd still be able to gain 'bases' in the traditional way.
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I remember there used to be a place on the server that had a certain item being the key to get into it. You used to be able to access it through West Arabel. It also had an exit into the ruins, but as that was several years ago I don't doubt that it's been removed since then although I've seen something similar to it. (Therefore it might actually still exist!)
The idea was that the item itself could (rarely) pop up or find its way into someone's hands. If they knew what to use it for, it would open the door, and there would be other items already in the 'hideaway' which could be given out to your friends. You could reset your spawn point to it, and spawn there, but I forget whether it had an actual storage chest in it.
It was just an interesting place. But when I think of 'secret hideaway' that's what I think of; it was masterfully done. Nobody really knows why it's there or what it does. It just exists and you can use it for whatever it is that you really want to use it for, but there's always that lingering doubt because someone else might know about it - someone else might use it, too. But if you were to kill someone there… nobody would find out about it.
I support having some areas like this, but what happens when all the keys are lost and nobody knows about them anymore? In my opinion, the DMs should drop hints about them to the appropriate groups - not craft areas SPECIFICALLY for those groups, but instead drop the item, spice a quest, toss out a line but expect folks to search and figure out for themselves.
In this way, let there be some chance of being infiltrated - or the hideaway robbed - but let it be on the players to prevent that, too, by keeping their mouths shut (which I find most people aren't very good at, myself included). I fall somewhere in the middle on this argument. Hideaways should be secure, but not lock-tight. If I'm Johnny Evil and I've gone to a lot of trouble to stash all my poison shrooms in a chest in the middle of the wilderness behind a cave and a waterfall let it stay there. On the other hand it should be hard, but not impossible, to find such a place if you're looking for it with a general idea of where to look.
Take the World's End tavern for instance.
That's a "Secret" (hyuck hyuck my ass) that it seems any character worth their salt knows about because the knowledge is so common as to be ridiculous. After a password like that becomes known to everybody, doesn't it make sense someone would change the password? Or that the entrance would change? Why is it a safe haven for EVERYBODY to run to? Why does most of the adventuring community know about it?
The answer is because people share that knowledge with people they trust and as the secret gets shared it becomes common knowledge. For a 'secret' that's only supposed to be available to a 'few', it's sure got out of hand. I've had two characters introduced to it, and neither one of them was a week old.
But as far as I know I only saw one instance of this other hideaway come up recently - and that's a good thing. It means that there are other secret hideouts that are actually -secret-.
I'd love to know about more, but even if I know about something on an OOC basis when I'm making a new character, I'm pretty bound up in not letting that knowledge bleed over. So could the DMs drop hints to these places that already exist? Somehow? I'm not sure how that would happen but it seems like a reasonably good idea.
So I think really what I'm saying is, use the hideaways to make GROUPS feel special, but let the groups cock it up for themselves.