Taboo to RP less or Not RP During Quests?
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We’re discussing hour/level spells!
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As @Vagabond3103 says, things like improved invisibility can make quests significantly easier and are a pretty good incentive to get through as many encounters as possible before they expire.
Raznor buffs are normally the thing pushing lowbies trying to complete multiple quests in one set of buffs.
1 Turn/Level buffs tend to be what encourages higher levels to rush. -
@wabbitseason Are the animal buffs turn / level now? They should be hour / level. That would help, the only one I'd be suspicious about is Bull's Strength as, over time, that one really does add a lot more damage to an encounter with a +5-10% chance to hit and a 1-3 extra damage per hit; its nearly better than flame weapon (though I've not done the exact math).
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We don't need it to be full RL hour per level, that might be a bit much, we should try to find some sort of balance, to make it worthwhile even at level 2.
Level 2: 30 RL minutes
Level 3: 35 RL minutes
Level 4: 40 RL minutes
Level 5: 45 RL minutes
Level 6: 50 RL minutes
Level 7: 55 RL minutes
Level 8: 60 RL minutes
Level 9: 75 RL minutes
Level 10: 90 RL minutes
Level 11: 105 RL minutes
Level 12: 120 RL minutesAlternately:
Level 2: 30 RL minutes
Level 3: 35 RL minutes
Level 4: 40 RL minutes
Level 5: 45 RL minutes
Level 6: 50 RL minutes
Level 7: 55 RL minutes
Level 8: 60 RL minutes
Level 9: 85 RL minutes
Level 10: 110 RL minutes
Level 11: 135 RL minutes
Level 12: 160 RL minutes -
Tbh i’d Make it 15 minutes a level for hour/level buffs
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Animal buffs are Hour/Level, but I'm saying even if they lasted forever, medium-high level questing will still be inclined to rush (especially long quests) to make the most out of Turn/Level spells like Improved Invisibility.
Summons are also limited duration, but I've only ever seen these be critical to completing a quest on lowbie runs.
Perhaps any buffs cast in a quest area last until you leave the quest area (and then vanish in a few IG hours) though I don't know how feasible this is to script.
Not including things like haste of course. -
@joekickass That is one reason we really should rotate quests in and out.
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I feel that what happened before, was that rewarding quests were nerfed/made more difficult rather than make unrewarding quests rewarding and fun. I feel that this was the wrong way to do things. We need to make the game more exciting. We need to improve quests like Carpenter, Allana's Ogres, Warehouse (jeez, what happened to it?), Crystal Caverns, Helmed Cave, Aunkspear Investigation, Silent Song, and more, to make them more doable regularly. Some of these are just not done at ALL.
Quest monotony leads to quest fatigue. I feel that more people will RP if they are doing new quests, because that is more exciting than boring kobolds for the Nth time this week
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@thune I agree with you there Thune! We need to make the things people want to do less more exciting, not make the things they want to do more less exciting.
So if you can give us specific suggestions to improve those, I'm happy to review them. I already made Crystal Caverns a little better recently, particularly for smiths.
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There are a few longer quests in the upper level ranges of CoA to which even if you rushed it without much rp, the quests would take 8+ IG hours to complete.
This only becomes an issue because some of these quests are very difficult without buffs, and so if you don't rush them your buffs expire and you'll probably die.For longer quests I think that putting places in the quests where the party can rest up (if the narrative of the quest allows for that to happen and still make sense) would allow people to rest easy and take their time to enjoy the quest, roleplaying along the way.
Withering heights was a quest that typically took longer than 12 IG hours even if you rushed, we started resting after reaching the midway point of that quest (and the narrative allowed for it as well) and since then we've been getting some quality interactions/rp on both stretches of the quest as a result.
I think the idea of resting spots on longer quests that allow for it is worth exploring because the pro's of encouraging rp outweigh the cons of letting the party always have spells on hand.
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Fey Optional is a ridiculously long low level quest. But the rest of the low level quests are reasonable (and there's a reason the optional is optional).
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Fey optional allows for resting, both mechanically and narratively. So the length isn't an issue.
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Regarding buff timers:
I did play on a server not too long ago that had set buffs to last 1 IRL Hour/Level. Let me tell you, that trivialized the entire questing experience. It was almost comical how one could go do a quest, return to a safe location, divide loot, and then go sit and chat for about an hour before the buffs ever expired - all with meaningful RP sprinkled throughout!
However, I do like the idea of 15-20 IRL minutes/level. In fact, we can forecast the impact of these changes before even implementing them! If everyone who feels inclined would PM me here on the forums a few bits of info every time you do a quest:
- What quest did you do?
- How many people were with you?
- Did you feel that you rushed it or took your time?
- And most importantly, how long in IRL minutes did it take you?
If everyone here pitched and sent me that data, I can have a meaningful metric set up by the end of next week to inform the DM team.
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If we did this, we'd need to reduce the amount of consumables available, probably...
Given the vast stacks I've seen on a lot of players, wealth would increase to massive quantities without the gold sink that buff potions are, right now.
Maybe a slight increase, but 20 minutes / hour is huge.
Without having to spend a lot of money on potions, I would have been a very wealthy PC, and I am sure you all can agree that I would represent the "average" player, rather than outliers like @King-Dobby or @CitizenBane ;)
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I don't think anyone is rushing quests because of their hour/level spells as much, since they're usually easily replicated with potions or items.
It's often the stoneskin or II which last a turn/level and need to be used effectively to avoid death. Or timing those hastes right.
Personally, I think if you wanted to readjust any of these you would have to look at each spell specifically to get it right.
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I try to RP in quests. Normally archetypal behaviour is good enough. Paladins being bossy, villains being scummy, etc. Just RP someone who is clearly focused on killing and staying alive.
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In any case, as for the OP's discussion:
Stay IC, have fun. Like I said, this is NOT as prevalent as people make it out to be. I always spy on quest parties when I'm DMing, and I don't see the kind of rushing people talk about very often.
Yes, it happens, but it's definitely minority, not majority, so most of you are fine; If I see it, I just send a polite tell asking them to stay IC as much as possible without disrupting the quest flow.
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I usually rush through lowbie quests. Even then, I will RP my character commenting on enemies or saying something to herself.
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My RP is usually limited to [thwunk!] while questing.
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I RP only when I know a DM is watching, amirite
🤗