@zargen-of-zandor said in V6 Level Range Round II:
Well the -main- issue is before 1-14 was perfect. There was safe guards in place to see people average out between 4-8. Was perfect for all build types. Then we were like this quest is too hard. This monster is too OP. I die too much. XP loss for res pawn is too much.
DMs then changed that. Threat of death was less and respawnung was a breeze. Now we hear we need minimu level increased so the new characters are closer to the veterans.
DMs gave us minimum lvl 6. Then we hear new spawns are too tough. More quests need to be made soloable. This monster needs removed because it’s a threat to tankers. And now once again we need a higher level cap.
Easy way to solve this. Maximum level cap. Or if you hit level 15 either retire or ask for a delevel. Done
Easy solution would be to stop complaining. But it's understandable that this sort of complaint happens, so let's move on.
@joekickass said in V6 Level Range Round II:
You just need a lot of more soloable content at the 6-10 range, so that it is easier to get to that range. I voted no, but it depends what we are talking about, if we are increasing the soft cap from 11/12 to 14/15, I dont see the harm. It does mean you need to get quests in there to get people up to level 10/11 at the least in a reasonable timeframe.
Right now, it seems like hitting 8 is easy enough, but getting much higher takes a lot of time. Since some PCs have been around for so long we are looking at people who are level 12-14, with new players levelling at a snail's pace.
I distinctly remember writing this exact same post five months ago.
I have played for a week and since I have gone an outcast I cannot really get to level 8 without spamming four quests each day. I have no idea how I will hit 9. It means that the main group of power-gamers will be able to kill me whenever they want.
As far as I am concerned the level cap does not matter. We need stuff to do in game. We have deleted about 50% of the quests, and nearly all the soloable ones. Most of the 8 maxes left require a minimum of 3 people. I know I have a reputation for complaining, but I really can't do anything in game even though I have a PC I really like.
I think the game is always going to favor the people who have large groups of (legal, non-outcast) PCs. However, I do want to point out a problem we've had balancing loot and levels with the recent increase in level caps.
The Undead Island guys went over without a fight because none of us had the consumables or supplies to really put up a fight. Now, I know that Lannister's no slouch - nobody in that faction was a slouch. We all tried to level, tried to horde consumables, but we didn't really manage it. There were a lot of reasons for this. I think one of the reasons was the gap we're talking about. I think it's that people will always advance faster in safety. We've always known there's a gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots" in CoA, and that gap tends to be a knowledge base gap as much as an opportunity gap.
I think part of it is that we've been building for level 10 for so long that nobody quite knows what is going on just four levels above that soft cap. That issue will, probably, gradually decrease as time goes on. It's just that right now, the people who DO know what is going on, are stacking wizard and cleric levels, because PnP players are not stupid, and no amount of RP power will save you from the gank squad. Let me reiterate: Rp power only goes so far.
We've had this discussion in various forms before, and a conclusion always gets struck somewhere in the middle, a yes-but-no that means that unless a DM is online, mechanical power rules the day. Philosophically, power is the ability to achieve what you desire, and often that comes down to being able to beat up other players, which means we need to be high level, which means that. . . you need to be high level to matter. And so on.
What happens when you not only need to be high level to matter, you also need to Get Gud? People like CB and Applefritos can build like powergamers, but most of us casuals need a bit of help and consultation and even then, it's a delicate art form to be able to complete a quest ahead of where you started.
I voted No, but it's because I wasn't here to vote before, or I would have done so. The knowledge gap won't lessen just because we've increased the level cap. CB's right - it just makes PvP more of a stomp-fest, where the people who knew what to take at what level will become impossible, and the people who didn't will never win without direct DM supervision. I can say this because my primary weapon is, and always has been, intrigue. But it always boils down to finding someone who can do the brawling and setting them in front of you. It is supremely important to know what you are doing.
I think that people would complain less if there were some sort of training, information, knowledge in the module, presented in such a way as to give PCs a sort of combat boot camp like I had to be given a while back. Once you understand the basics, it's hard to complain about quests being hard because, frankly, they aren't. If something's "broken", it's stomping you and there's nothing you can do. But it's not "Broken" if you're too cheap to do stuff like carry polarization potions, protection from evil, or basic counter-spells or restorations to make sure you don't get beaten like a child on his nameday.
Maybe have some combat manuals available in game or, in the new module, make a few quests that people can take that will give them some basic consumables and then, during the course of the fight, show them how to use them. Make it hard enough they can't walk out with the potions. Maybe make it an optional, scripted intro on the road to Arabel. But only making people aware of how to build, how to potion, how to fight, is going to get them to stop complaining about basic stuff. Most people just don't know what they're talking about, but that isn't their fault completely. I think that everybody wants to know how to do things better, but few of us really get the opportunity for good, direct mentorship.