@The:

Neith, you also make an important point here. The question is, how do I respond to it and adapt my DMing to suit without becoming a Director pushing you in the way that I expect you to go. After all, the real fun for a DM is when you players, when given options A and B by the DM, choose option C. I am really open to ideas on how to indicate alternative options to players, but I am concerned about pushing players down my planned route.

This whole discussion needs to revolve round what you as players want to see, given the issue raised.

I've been thinking about what you said Abby, because I think DM quests are a challenge all around. As a player, I think what I have found is helpful, is when there is a moment in which the players can pause and decided what to do next, just like in PnP. Usually the players are eager to rush to the next thing, often with no plan, so it becomes a slash fest.

Harry ran a very successful on-the-fly PnP style quest for a group of us once, and it was my favorite DM quest I ever went on. We were chased by bandits, escaped them momentarily, and he gave us a moment where he told us "The Bandits will arrive soon. You have 60 seconds to decide what you will do." It was a nice breather. One of us started setting traps. I sent a PM to the DM channel and used AE to summon a bunch of wolves. Two fighters set up a perimeter. It was a lot of fun.

Similarly, I had an encounter with Gmork, where an Ogre wanted a toll before we could cross a bridge unless we paid a toll. He was a threat, but we were safe as long as we didn't try to cross the bridge. It gave us a moment to think. The hardest part in this encounter was not getting the players with me (Red Harts, of course) to charge the Ogre and slay it. My Hearald was able to barter with Ogre by offering it some flowers.

I'm not sure if these examples help or not. But I believe the two things that help players are 1) giving a moment to decide before acting, and 2) letting the players know you are receptive to an idea at the time.

For players, I think we need to concentrate on not rushing ahead. It seems most players, especially fighters, want to be the first one into the fray, and show off how powerful or dedicated they are. Remember, not everyone is built to just fight, and it's more fun to involve everyone in a cooperative plan.

I think that we're all discussing this is a good first step!

I think one of the biggest challenges with DM quests is knowing what is expected of you. Personally, I don't like fighting, even if I'm winning. I prefer to figure things out, use my wit, or find alternative approaches. I understand I am in minority, as many people -do- enjoy the thrill of combat. That said, I often try to find alternatives in game, but unless there is a response or encouragement, perhaps I roll, or perhaps I am asked to roll, I just assume that it's not what the DM wants, and I don't want to try it and end up killing everyone else in my party.

Like Rage said, in this particular circumstance, if there some hint through and emote that there is a chance to slip by, I would pounce on it and try to convince the others. Otherwise, I would keep fighting, because frankly I am used to DM quests where waves of monsters are sent after my party and we are expected to kill them to 'win'. I've even walked away from quests like this when it seemed there was no other purpose to the quest other than to fight seeming random waves.

Bottom Line: As a player it is sometimes difficult to know what is expected by the DM, and a little encouragement/response to different ideas goes a long way.

// Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. The Library book isn't necessarily meant to be taken as fact.

Neith enters the Library to research information about how to battle vampires, demons, and lycanthropes. She is looking for any histories or eye-witness accounts of weapons that do harm to each, and way to protect against them.

/* OOC Is Raznor's Guide to the Undead being used as canon IG? Specifically I want to know if we can rely on it as fact when he states:

If exposed to direct sunlight, it is utterly destroyed, while driving a stake through its heart instantly slays it as well. Also immersing a vampire in running water is another way to destroy the vampire completely.

I have have heard some contradictory information IC and OOCly about this. */

The idea of a charity bin has been brought up before. I like that idea. The chest can be emptied every re-set.

That's exciting!

Would it be possible to implement something like a bank that instead of storing money, would store items? A sort of bank of permanent storage, that costs a fee to use. This would help those of us who want to store gear for faction members, or for auctions. I like to outfit my faction members, but it can be a challenge to carry everything your faction might need. This would also give players a place to store plot items that are drop able, and would prevent loss of items to pick pocket or looting.

It takes a long time and a lot of hard work to earn an IG player base, this would help deal with the logistics in the meanwhile.

I have to say, in my experience, I have never hesitated to post because I thought a DM would troll me. However, I -always- expect the players to troll me, even if my opinion is voiced without any malice or snark. If you have a different opinion, people feel the need to say why this makes you weak, and to insult you personally. I think the general attitude of entitlement and feeling superior to others has infected both forums and IRC.

As for affecting things IG, I think fewer and fewer players are willing to put in the time. Recently it seems like the point is to power grab, level, grab loot, then maybe rp. There are a few players that are working to build intrigue, and to find out secrets IG, but it is a slow process that takes several months to accomplish, and I am not sure the player base is willing to put in the time anymore. It feels to me, anyway, that people are expecting things to be obtained more easily, especially if they consider themselves a 'veteran' player.

I also notice that where it was once a rarity for someone to steal from their own party, or steal from other players, or even mug them, it has become common place. This sort of self-serving rp is rampant, and turn-off to players who are trying to make it fun for everyone, without the need for someone to be 'winning.'

I do agree we need more DMs, and more active ones. I can only catch one on weekends in the US timezone, and I have only seen the same three more than once in the past couple of months.

But I do think there has been a fundamental shift in playing styles, and it seems people are being more disrespectful and playing more selfishly. This has been my experience for the past six months anyway.

I think it is incorrect to assume that all people who quest quickly to high level use their high levels to benefit the server, or even most.

Also I think you can be a hard core rper and still do quests as a way to focus your rp, and to build off of it. On slow nights I've spent an hour and half completing the Tyche Crypts challenge because we were so caught up in the moment. The trick is finding the balance of rp that is right for your party.

I think it's important to remember that DMs created quests for their own enjoyment and put a lot of effort into them. They shouldn't be seen as just a tool to level, and if you don't rp during a quest you are taking the magic out of them until they become a chore.

Sorry to hear the tragic news. I hope the best for you and your family in the coming days and weeks. Our thoughts are with you.