Recent out of character PvP



  • It seems to be becoming a trend lately that most conflict i've been involved in or seen lately has ended up in someone taking matters out of character (OOC). Sometimes there was not even fighting involved, only arguing and sooner or later, what do you know, someone takes the issue out of character.

    Only those to whom this applies should take this to heart, but the matter concerns every player on the server.

    This kills any immersion for me, it just kills it and spoils, ruins and destroys whatever went before it, taking what would have been an awesome thing and makes it something i do not want to be a part of.

    What has happened to our server? Why do people see attacks on their characters as an attack upon their person? What is this recent trend of people simply ceasing to be in character and resulting to OOC name-calling and insults? Too much attachment to one's character is unhealthy and nothing good can come of such a thing. If you find yourself unable to handle conflict that is completely legitimate, take a step back and think the matter over instead of just going nuts on other players and ruining their fun in the process.

    This concerns us all because, and let me make this really clear as DMs have stated this many times over, -THIS IS A FULL PVP SERVER!-. There are rules and those who break them will be dealt with by the DMs. If you have an issue with something, bring it to the DMs and let them handle it, because otherwise, guess what, -YOU- are the one breaking the rules.

    I thought the playerbase was more more mature than to bring so many squabbles OOC. I have had so many good experience with so many players in these matters and i do not want them to take this to heart at all, most of them should know who they are.

    If this trend continue, to keep bringing stuff that is happening in character into OOC bickering, i do not see myself having a place on this server anymore. It will not be the CoA i know and love. So let's please try and stop this horrible thing before it escalates.



  • I have to agree with CB, and I've noticed all of this as well. I play a Bastard, a Jerk, and someone who is simply Grumpy all the time. This does not reflect who I am as a person, and what is said In Character, is my character being himself. If you do not care to be in PvP, yet you cause conflict between other players, then perhaps the conflict being caused ICly needs to stop. PvP is fun until it gets taken personal and brought into the game OOCly. Then it becomes drama, and drama isn't fun for anyone involved.



  • I'm going to leave this here and let it stand for a time. If this topic becomes a festering rage-fest, I'll lock it, but this is a good message.

    The tl;dr here is that taking OOC disputes and turning them into IC conflicts is against the rules, for both players and DMs. That's been an official CoA rule since the server's inception and will remain so until the server spontaneously combusts.



  • I would like to add to this that there has also been a rash of things being said both OOC "publically" (as in with //) and in tells and even somethings said IC that were taken the wrong way and twisted into some form of personal attack.

    I will be the first to admit, I am one of the guilty ones in this. I see others do it as well.

    I have lost much because I did not ask the moment or shortly after it happened and those perceived slights, be they real or not, grew on both sides into something that didn't need to be.

    So, in the hopes someone can save themselves the pain of loss, I ask everyone to check and recheck before they jump off on the "they insulted/attacked me" mindset. There is a very good chance that it was just something lost in translation and/or due to the fact that words can not convey inflection or facial expressions of the typist.

    ~Sweets



  • People resorting to OOC should simply not be happening unless absolutely necessery during PvP, and even so, when possible, kept to tell so it does not ruin immersion for other players.



  • This is mostly for citizen bane, but I guess everyone is included in our little circle of friends -

    Don't give up on the server because of a few bad apples man! Your a great role player. I personally dig your style. Through the years CoA has seen a few jackass types come through. They never last because they just don't fit in here. A few folks have had rough starts here and turned out ok too, so remember people can grow. I personally would like to see less ooc squabbling, but we're dealing with humans here so some bickering is inevitable. An argument isn't a perminent reflection on the character of the CoA crew at large. Take it easy, play for fun, and let that negative stuff roll off of your back man. I hope to see you in game.

    Sensei

    End transmission



  • On a related note, "Full PVP" is merely a setting on a game. It doesn't mean that you have to base your entire purpose being in the game as fighting other players; creating characters who you know will inevitably lead to PVP… they have arena servers for that. I understand that PVP will and should happen in the right circumstances, but it's not my driving impetus. Making mechanically superior PVP characters is easy. Doing awesome stuff without focusing on PVP is more challenging. Knowing people make characters for the express purpose of engaging in PVP ruins immersion for me.



  • The only thing worse than this is when you talk to a character about something, but everything the character says is just the player trying to teach you how to "play the game."



  • Noone was even talking about amount of pvp, this discussion is about taking conflict to OOC instead of keeping it IC.



  • swings his lantern"come on lads pull up a sand bag while i tell ye a tale"

    In the past long ago there were some guidelines for PvP and creating conflict there were things like earn the right to take from another player and on giving the players your up against fun and not just going for the win,but i think my favourite one was do from level 1 what you want to be doing at 10 the new ten i suppose is 8.
    So if this is what is happening with those characters that are pushing pvp there is no problem and any oc hassle can be as the player is probably just upset about losing.

    Disclaimer
    The bold part is where i see the current conflict falling down when things are fun for both sides you get mentioned on the forums and talked about on a oc level as a group that creates fun for others i have not heard anything good or bad :?



  • I too agree with the OP. Everyone's here to have fun, and we're all just trying to RP our characters. Please don't take it OOC, and remember, it's okay to send us tells OOC with any concerns you might have about conflict between respective chracters.

    What I mean by this, and maybe it's just me, is that I really don't mind talking to you guys OOC via. tell even though our characters are rivals/enemies. Personally I find this kind of sets us on even ground as we both realize we're just normal folks playing different characters.

    I find that otherwise, it's too easy to get upset about your character dying. I totally get it, even when one's character dies for legitimate totally cool reasons, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for the victim, at least a little bit. I think where the real problem is is an increase in folks who like to play characters that are rather stagnant- not so much inactive as much as they are just wanting to play the game and their character- no server-altering goals that can be really percieved. There's nothing wrong with this, but it leads to character attachment, and since their character dying isn't fun to them, it doesn't matter how "fun" the enemy is making it, they'll be accused of making it not fun.



  • @petey512:

    I think where the real problem is is an increase in folks who like to play characters that are rather stagnant- not so much inactive as much as they are just wanting to play the game and their character- no server-altering goals that can be really percieved. There's nothing wrong with this, but it leads to character attachment, and since their character dying isn't fun to them, it doesn't matter how "fun" the enemy is making it, they'll be accused of making it not fun.

    Perhaps there is a middle ground as if you get involved in various plots then you should consider if you play with fire you might get burned.
    And on the other side… if someone is NOT involved in things, perhaps consider that when selecting targets of PvP. For instance, randomly killing people to make a name for yourself, as opposed to kiling members of a faction, may lead to the victims being annoyed. The fcation members on the other hand, should expect they could easily be targets for whatever



  • I have shaken the magical 8 ball and it has told me these three things;

    PvP is fun.

    Loosing to pvp is not the end of the world, even if your character dies, so don't fear it.

    Taking your pvp lumps with a wink and a smile instead of a whine and a bitch leads to server wide respect 100% of the time.

    Feel free to ask any more questions and I will shake the 8 ball again.



  • I don't disagree with previous posts.. But to look at it from a different angle: maybe try to think what annoys people that much when they engage in pvp with you? I don't think i've had any conflicts with your characters so i don't know. But i know that me and most other players do not encounter such reaction when they win pvp.
    It's not a sneak attack on you or something, just an honest advice. It's just apparent to me that this ooc angst is generated not around pvp in general but around individual players.



  • I get what you're saying Direfish, and I respect it, especially since everytime it happens with the group of folks it's generally focused towards, I ask, "why isnt' it fun for you even though we're trying to make it fun for you?"

    The answer was, (And I'm not exaggerating here,) that we were too many and too powerful to be beaten.

    Which can be dispproven by the very fact that not long after we were beaten.

    This tells me that there was less a problem with our PvP manners, and more a problem of players not handling losing very well.

    Not trying to be rude, but that's what was said, and that's what can be deducted from what was said. If that answer is totally off, by all means correct me.

    I've said it before and I'll say it a million times if I need to: CB is a pro-player who's totally a cool dude IC and out. I kind of wish people would lay off the poor guy.



  • Careful, friends. Stay on target.



  • OOC before or during PvP is sometimes necessary to establish terms, such as "Do we want to set FullDamage or BeatDown" etc.

    However, it does damage immersion for everyone concerned. If possible, PvP should be run without OOC, but with full consideration and manners, respecting the player of your opponent. If you don't respect the player of your opponent, there will be issues that surface causing bitterness, rage and other nastiness. Play hard with your PCs if this is appropriate, but play nice with your collegues. Anything less is just not acceptable.

    Finally, lets see you asking for DM oversight for your PvP sessions. There are times when it is required and you may not PvP without it, such as in areas where there are NPCs - including all built up areas.

    We have lots of DMs on now. If we watch over your sessions, even when there are no NPCs around, we can cool things off as the OOC heats up. This is as much for the protection of the instigator as for the victim of the PvP. It's for your protection!



  • A huge problem- which is what CB is referring to, is the fact people are going full blow OOC insult for -zero- reason. And it ruins events, ruins the fun, and generally just makes everyone relatively blah. It's starting to make those of us who are playing conflict oriented characters not want to bother - as most of us lose interest when people start name calling and such OOC when conflict arises. And mind you, it's not even from fighting pvp - it can simply be conversations.



  • Yes, this is true. 1 out of 3 times this has happened now it was not "my" pvp, second was a mass event which escalated into a riot and the third was an IC argument that went into OOC insults suddenly for no reason whatsoever.
    In none of the cases was anything taken, anyone killed and nothing lost except maybe a bit of pride.

    I could be a total bitch about it and screenie it immediately and send it to DMs without discussing it with the players, but what i want to address is the mindset of taking things to OOC levels immediately without dealing with it IC and then take it to tells afterwards and maybe even tell people what they thought, what they felt was lacking etc. I've not once shunned away from tells like that. What i want to address is this blatantly wrong mindset about taking things to OOC and instantly ruin the experience for everyone involved.

    The fact that people seem to think that doing this is justified and defend it makes me sad. PvP is an aspect of the server and doing this is wrong on many levels. It would be like someone walking into people roleplaying a conversation about something meaningful to their characters and said person would do something like "LOL, GAAAY!, get a life!". Noone would enjoy that and noone would think it was justified, even if the person who did it didn't like what was being said or done. Why would people then think it is alright to do this with another aspect of the server?

    It is immersion breaking, ruins everyone's fun and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.



  • I stopped PVPing for this particular reason. I had an episode, where someone tried to asassinate my character, and was killed because after many sad OOC filled episodes, I switched to FD whenever i logged in. This person tried to kill me, died in the process, and turned it all into a so huge OOC mess, that the aspect of the game I enjoyed the most, I was now completely avoiding.

    This server needs a change in attitude. If it had been my friends out in the real world, I would have slapped them all silly, and then been drinking beer to ensure that people trust one another again.


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