Social skills



  • How relevant are those on Arabel?
    I think i've seen enough interesting stuff involving persuade and appraise seems to be handy enough.
    But what about Bluff and Intimidate?



  • Try and threaten someone on a Zool quest without intimidate. Last time i did it, we got the whole Grodd mountain on top of us. >.>

    So yes, they're very viable.



  • On scripted quests and with other PCs they are unlikely to have much effect at all. Players will likely make their decision based on how convincing you are as a player, not how convincing your PC might be with points in Bluff etc. That's just life.

    With NPCs, DMs will often take into account your social skills to effect the NPCs. You do need some aspects of being convincing or intimidating, the points alone will rarely cut it. "Geofrey stands boldly, hand on sword pommel intimidate" is unlikely to impress alone.



  • You get to use social skills very rarely.
    There are a small small bunch of quests where they can be used to avoid combat or increase quest reward.
    Some DMs will ask for social rolls on some of the quests they do.

    Its not "worth" it from a gaming point of view.
    But if you enjoying RPing for the sake of it, put some points in.



  • @CitizenBane:

    Try and threaten someone on a Zool quest without intimidate. Last time i did it, we got the whole Grodd mountain on top of us. >.>

    So yes, they're very viable.

    Bear in mind that this also works vice versa.
    I dont care how high your persuade/bluff/intimidate roll is. If you cant support it ICly with compelling RP I will ignore your roll, basically because to me - Just because someone has the ability to bluff you, doesnt mean he can without saying the right words.



  • I feel to be disadvantage no matter what. 🙂



  • @Seter:

    I dont care how high your persuade/bluff/intimidate roll is. If you cant support it ICly with compelling RP I will ignore your roll, basically because to me - Just because someone has the ability to bluff you, doesnt mean he can without saying the right words.

    As a DM, if I see someone trying to be persuasive, despite lacking those skills as a player, or struggling with the language barrier, I would likely assist with the rolls.



  • @The:

    @Seter:

    I dont care how high your persuade/bluff/intimidate roll is. If you cant support it ICly with compelling RP I will ignore your roll, basically because to me - Just because someone has the ability to bluff you, doesnt mean he can without saying the right words.

    As a DM, if I see someone trying to be persuasive, despite lacking those skills as a player, or struggling with the language barrier, I would likely assist with the rolls.

    That's really good to hear. It's not the players fault they lack the skill for expansive emotes, or have a language barrier. But their character has none of those things, so the DM's supporting the investment in skills is great to see.

    Me, I will sometimes pay attention to the Mod instead of the roll, if it's a low roll. Mod 11, rolls 1 = 12. But holy shit.. mod 11 at level 2? I'm in for cooperating unless I have very good reason not to.



  • I had a Senior Retainer being able to talk herself out of beating a member of the Witch Hunters in broad daylight in Central Arabel, simply because the dms knew she had 18 persuade at lvl 6. So its supported in general by the dms. Id say put the points in if you wish to be very social, because some day, you will likely need them.



  • Seter has a valid point, as it's no easier to respond to any other high roll without some meaty text to go with it. Just try and avoid the pitfall of God-emoting (telling someone what their character is feeling, e.g. "As you look upon this hulking beast of levul tin, you can't help but feel powerless")

    DM quests aside, there have been numerous instances where a DM has asked for a roll - or done a roll in secret - in an otherwise DMless event and made a suggestion to someone involved based on that roll (you are acutely aware that Mr X is uncomfortable with what he's saying).

    I would say go for it, even if you're not confidant that you can do the skill "justice" - so long as it fits your character. It's not just about how colourfully you dress it up but what you attempt to do with it. People are likely to participate and enjoy someone playing a merchant down on his luck, bluffing about stupendous returns on future investments - but not so much to someone who rolls 20 on intimidate and tells others that they feel like whimpering in a corner until he passes.



  • i have found only about a dozen times in all my time here where skill rolls were asked for..and of those i had 2 where i was told my rolls had no bearing since the rolls were intended for other characters in both instances (in both those incidents my rolls were vastly superior to the ones the others had made, the others were given the information and i was left in the dark)

    i guess i should refrain from doing these skill rolls on my own from now on..sorry to all those whom i have subjected to unsolicited skill rolls recently



  • I can't really formulate a very good definitive answer for this topic, really. Personally, I'm a non-native english speaker, and yes, that is an obstacle. I can't even begin to count the number of IC social situations I've been in where I know exactly how to respond or what to say in a situation but I just can't find the right translation for it. Generally, you don't have a DM on your shoulder and when you don't, you won't get to use your social skill modifier because only a DM can set any potential DC's.

    For me, it's a matter of honesty. If you character is going to try to pursuade people, put ranks into pursuade, because that is what your character can do. Same with Bluff and Intimidate, really. Say I play a barbarian, I'm going to put ranks into intimidate for the simple reason that I consider a barbarian to be an intimidating person. Simply put, if it makes sense for your character to have the ranks, give him the ranks.

    Furthering this, I'd also want to encourage people to play their stats. If your character has an insignificant Bluff modifier, and you're going to tell a lie to someone, use emotes, or contradictions, or whatever to give them a clue you might be lying. I promise you it'll result in entertaining scenarios.



  • @Organized_Chaos:

    @The:

    @Seter:

    I dont care how high your persuade/bluff/intimidate roll is. If you cant support it ICly with compelling RP I will ignore your roll, basically because to me - Just because someone has the ability to bluff you, doesnt mean he can without saying the right words.

    As a DM, if I see someone trying to be persuasive, despite lacking those skills as a player, or struggling with the language barrier, I would likely assist with the rolls.

    That's really good to hear. It's not the players fault they lack the skill for expansive emotes, or have a language barrier. But their character has none of those things, so the DM's supporting the investment in skills is great to see.

    Me, I will sometimes pay attention to the Mod instead of the roll, if it's a low roll. Mod 11, rolls 1 = 12. But holy shit.. mod 11 at level 2? I'm in for cooperating unless I have very good reason not to.

    Go reread the description for the bluff skill. I'm maxing both persuade and bluff with my new char. Can't be a good negotiator without it. I also love it when people play it off that they have no bluff or intimate by roleplaying out the flaw and flopping their attempt



  • I know I might not be fair, but it is often the players who simply adore throwing Social Skill rolls left and right… I was more of a fan of "situational" RP, and of course simply RPing your skills/attributes, rather than rolling for them. There are some exceptions, Bluff being one of them. You could say a convincing lie, but your body language could give everything away (that could be a Bluff Roll). Persuading somebody to open a gate locked for the night? You have to find the right arguments, or put in the proper cover of words. Intimidate is one of those Skill rolls I often have a problem with imagining. A Barbarian could go in front of an army and roar for an Intimidate check 30. That is, for all ends and purposes, intimidating. The "but" here is the situation... a single man who shouts a bit louder will not move an entire (let us assume) Orc horde. If said man was already a Legend though, a well known Orc Slayer who is known for that specific battle cry? That's when your Intimidate skill pays off, on-top of the reputation.

    A bit of a shorter summary of my thoughts:

    Bluff - Rolls necessary, if Body Language has to be interpreted, but the lie has to be "forged" by the player.

    Persuade - Entirely up to the player. How do you make the exact same statement more or less persuading? If somebody does not want to listen to you it might just be your Charisma, and not Persuade skills.

    Intimidate - Eeeeeeeh... Depends on the situation? One on one it makes sense, if you want to scare somebody off, or make somebody stand down from combat. But in bigger fights? Intimidation is not only how somebody speaks, but also how somebody looks and acts, combined with the person's reputation (or lack there of). Very rarely do I see Intimidate checks making a difference. Most likely because the creatures/people you try to use them against are more powerful anyway, and they know it.

    Edit: Just to correct my trail of thought here, I am fine with people rolling for these skills if there is a language barrier, or if we are talking about characters having some truly epic social skills that most of us cannot even imagine. It is only fair.



  • ^

    +1



  • Roleplay your skills.

    If you have high persuade, use it to persuade other players, but really, there is absolutely no need to roll these when interacting with other players, if anything, I personally find it immersion breaking.

    Bluff is the big one here. please, please, please NEVER roll bluff in front of another player. That is just asking them to metagame. They may not even want to, but it's damn hard not to sometimes. If you have decent bluff ranks (10 is a nice number to be able to tell decent lies) then go ahead and lie, but you'd need something higher to just lie to a sheriffs face about the murder you just committed. When doing this, you can emote things like sweating heavily, scratching your neck/eye/ear/whatever, some kind of nervour tick etc. This gives the other player a chance to see you may not be being entirely truthful. Bluff is not just about -saying- things that are not true either, it is about hiding your intentions, or glossing over the full truth, you need bluff ranks to do this.

    Persuade is to bring someone round to your point of view, hence why clerics get it as a class skill. You can't use persuade to hide the truth, that's not how it works, even if you have 500 persuade, you may still be crap at lies.

    Intimidate is pretty obvious, you use words, and body language to worry someone into doing what you want them too. AGAIN if you have no intimidate ranks, you should not be intimidating people to any real effect, no matter if your a ten foot half orc with a greataxe. What will happen is, you will look like a ten foot half orc with a greataxe, that seems to be acting silly, and wouldn't be taken seriously, a bit like a clown, with an axe, it just laughable.

    In short.

    Roleplay your skills/stats.

    don't roll, role play, for players.

    DM's will ask you to roll certain skills sometimes (I do this often) to determine how well you can perform an action.

    I will (very often) give other players hints that people are lieing to them, should i encounter it, and I do, a lot, using emotes through tells. I'll never ask you for a bluff roll if your in front of another player who should not know your lieing.

    Yes, they are important (more than most seem to think) if your character wishes to use these skills during his lifetime.



  • @Zool:

    Roleplay your skills.

    If you have high persuade, use it to persuade other players, but really, there is absolutely no need to roll these when interacting with other players, if anything, I personally find it immersion breaking.

    Bluff is the big one here. please, please, please NEVER roll bluff in front of another player. That is just asking them to metagame. They may not even want to, but it's damn hard not to sometimes. If you have decent bluff ranks (10 is a nice number to be able to tell decent lies) then go ahead and lie, but you'd need something higher to just lie to a sheriffs face about the murder you just committed. When doing this, you can emote things like sweating heavily, scratching your neck/eye/ear/whatever, some kind of nervour tick etc. This gives the other player a chance to see you may not be being entirely truthful. Bluff is not just about -saying- things that are not true either, it is about hiding your intentions, or glossing over the full truth, you need bluff ranks to do this.

    Persuade is to bring someone round to your point of view, hence why clerics get it as a class skill. You can't use persuade to hide the truth, that's not how it works, even if you have 500 persuade, you may still be crap at lies.

    Intimidate is pretty obvious, you use words, and body language to worry someone into doing what you want them too. AGAIN if you have no intimidate ranks, you should not be intimidating people to any real effect, no matter if your a ten foot half orc with a greataxe. What will happen is, you will look like a ten foot half orc with a greataxe, that seems to be acting silly, and wouldn't be taken seriously, a bit like a clown, with an axe, it just laughable.

    In short.

    Roleplay your skills/stats.

    don't roll, role play, for players.

    DM's will ask you to roll certain skills sometimes (I do this often) to determine how well you can perform an action.

    I will (very often) give other players hints that people are lieing to them, should i encounter it, and I do, a lot, using emotes through tells. I'll never ask you for a bluff roll if your in front of another player who should not know your lieing.

    Yes, they are important (more than most seem to think) if your character wishes to use these skills during his lifetime.

    Booom! Head shot

    Zool has a high persuade skill IRL


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