DM Factions: Earning your way in – is it too much?

  • so why is it, you think, that squires and auxiliary dont last long enough to get fully inducted in the factions?
    [22:49]I don't know how it works for RH
    [22:50]But we make it really easy for someone to be an Auxilary
    [22:50]I mean, it's an easy way to gain entry to the faction, you get some loot, forum access -
    [22:50]So we get a lot of character who come in on the first day and become an Auxilary, but then find they don't like the character
    [22:53]it is really easy to join as a squire, honestly
    [22:53]but to weed out the weirdos, I usually issue relatively easy challenges (if I don't know the character already IC to approve them)
    [22:53]and a number of people just simply don't bother ever coming back
    [22:54]though I suspect they probably would have just quit the squire in a few days anyways. So.. saves me paperwork
    [22:55]Thats basically exactly what we do with Auxilary
    [22:55]They get an interview, a task
    [22:55]get armored up and assigned to a mage
    [22:56]Then dissappear forevers >.>

    Thoughts? Comments?
    Suggestions for helping people stick with the concepts and get into the factions?

  • I honestly don't think it's the earning process, but without the app people feel less attached to those characters that enter into the bottom rungs, and quit them more easily when they get a different character idea.

    I never assign a task for a would-be faction member that can't be completed within an hour and usually far less.

  • During my time in the guild, we were told to assign tasks that would take a day or two to complete. Three at max. I guess things have changed but I felt those tasks, while some being menial, were important for judging the "stay-ability" of the character and the player. My reasoning in it was, not every moment of every day you spend IG is going to be chalked full of epic awesomeness, there will be down times and times you have to go out and make your own epic. Others may not agree, but I felt the entry process should reflect that just a little.

    As far as trying to entice them to stay, i dont' know. I never started as a non app, so I can't comment too much on that.

  • And by weirdos, I simply meant people who aren't fit for the faction for both IC and OOC reasons. The whole quitting after a day thing being the OOC side mostly. Don't judge me!

  • Well, let me ask you this. Do RH squires get forum access? Part of the issue might be they don't feel included. I know MG Auxiliaries and Novices do, as do Legion Applicants, so that might rule that suggestion out.

    And I'm sure you guys are getting them involved. There are stellar players in both the MG and RH, so I doubt they're turned off by lack of roleplay.

    It could be, though, that they enter the faction and they don't get an appropriate description of it beforehand, so they peruse the forums, realize what they've gotten themselves into, and back out. I've known several people who have "taste-tested" factions like this.

  • If they are wearing a RH squire uniform, they also have forum access to the RH section.

    Though there have been numerous players I've tried to get to know IC before they become a squire who I've never seen again after the first encounter.

  • @noskcire926:

    And by weirdos, I simply meant people who aren't fit for the faction for both IC and OOC reasons.

    Could you elaborate? Because my first impression is that of an elitist club.

  • Shouldn't Elite Knights be Elitist?

    One of the purposes of the tasks assigned by Apprentices to prospective auxilliaries and novices is to weed out the "Let me join your club with my alt-character I'll only be playing for 2 days" type of character. They should be short enough to encourage the new player, long enough to weed out the bored play, taxing enough to weed out the lazy player and simple enough to encourage the young player.

    This is a balancing act for those setting tasks. Some tasks, in the past, have been way too demanding. Others, way too simple. If you invite a new character to become an auxilliary or squire, hand him the loot and access to all the secrets of the Faction, and do not see him for weeks, you failed in assessing the character. If you hand him the task etc, and he just walks off never to bother achieveing the task, you have probably succeeded in weeding out an inappropriate character for a DM Faction. Remember, DM Factions are designed for characters who will be the main character of a player and played 90% of the time. These entry roles are the starting point of an application character.

    Squire entry is similar, but slightly different. It is expected that someone wishing to enter the Red Hart Order will be worthy of the high honour that belongs to the Red Hart. Knights will want to spend time observing candidates for squire to see if they model the attitudes and behaviours required. Again, we do not want Chaotic Evil Clerics of Dhoom becoming squires, so a knight needs some time to asertain that this character is not a secret cyricist.

    Earning your way in is exactly what is expected of players. We want players to feel they have achieved something when they gain access to a guild or order that is special. We also want it to be easy enough to encourage those players who find Applications difficult, and Factions intimidating. The role of the Full Faction members is to walk this tightrope with panache and skill!

  • my approach to assigning tasks was to do something simple in game, acompany a guild member on one of their 'missions', be that a scripted quest or more usually a non scripted walk somewhere (to show them the rp side of the faction and be able to discuss the agenda of that char and how they might fit in the faction) and also some fairly easy task such as mapping an area, or writing a forum report on an area or topic.

    it was often used that when there were several potential recruits to get them to report on each other as to their personalities, strengths, weaknesses, etc. I prefered to assess them myself though!

  • Abbot, you're a very eloquent man. 🙂 I think i got it now.
    Only one more question.

    Remember, DM Factions are designed for characters who will be the main character of a player and played 90% of the time.

    Does this mean that a player can not have more than one faction character at a time?

  • You could only 50% of your time maximum with two faction characters.
    plus, they may end up conflicting with each other, learning secrets, or sending assasins after one another….......... Doesn't seem like a great idea right?

  • Yep. Just making sure. 🙂

  • Storyteller [DM]

    If you're playing a faction PC, you should be willing to dedicate every moment in game to them. The same goes for application characters.

    The effort to join the factions is completely fine right now. If anything, joining should be slightly harder.

  • @SpiffyHas:

    If you're playing a faction PC, you should be willing to dedicate every moment in game to them. The same goes for application characters…

    This is not something that the Dms would enforce. We expect players to focus the majority of their game time to Application Characters as part of the contract with the DM team on having your application approved. We do not insist they dedicate every moment in game to them. That would be oppressive and hard work. With regards to Player Factions, you may do as you wish. We do think that players who focus their attention gain more and give more and would encourage such play, but don't want players to walk away, because of some oppressive ruling.

    Lets just make sure we keep a sense of perspective and a sense of fun here, guys.

  • The reason I wasn't to upset when I got the boot from the mage guild, and didn't really put any effort into trying to get back in was the massive amount of forum-work required, though I do understand the need for it. Especially in that faction.

    And all factions need forums to share information on. But the level of IC foruming required for the MG was just too much for me.

  • I find, in the Sheriffs, that the Forum Work is much lower than what I faced in the Mages Guild. Beyond that, I can't honestly say that I've seen very much interest for the position of Deputy, even though gaining it is fairly simple. Why there is a lack of interest in becoming part of the Sheriffs, I don't know. My theory is that the Sheriffs simply aren't the "flavour of the month", in that none of the recent events have given the Sheriffs much "press". I believe the general playerbase flock to the factions that had the latest "Big event" success. Why the Red Hart and Mage's Guild, wich seems to be the most promoted factions at the moment, are struggling, I can't really say, but my oppinion is that the non-application "first rank" system present is a great way to run a faction.

  • Sheriffs was by far the most fun faction i've been a part of so far, even though it was only myself or myself and one other most of the time. Paperwork is just about as much as you want it to be.

    However, I found being a squire in the Red Hart real fun, but that was because the people in the faction made it fun for me. I think it is a big factor of making the initiation experience fun, that the veterans in the faction make it so.

    There will always be people that will quit, and i imagine it will mostly be due to ooc reasons.

  • You really can just not do it if its not fun you know. It's like, a game, that's meant to be fun… so, yeah. (this was a response to OC on forum 'work' in the Mages guild)

  • Do what I did if you don't like forum paperwork.

    Don't do it. Or better yet, do the most miniscule amount possible to make sure the others are informed of IG occurrences. Then just step back.

    Goodness knows I've done this with all my DM faction characters save one, and that was just because I tried to play him as a rallying figurehead.

  • If you want to stay ontop of things in a faction, though, you're pretty much forced to spend half your game time on the forums, it seems. I generally fall behind in whatever faction I join, simply because I don't spend alot of time on the forums.

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