Gone with the Win - CoA & PvP



  • If you find this tl;dr. Read at least the bottom part. If you're interested, read it from the beginning.

    So, before you read this please remind yourself that this is my opinion. Everyone is different but this is something that I have found to work and I think it might help to share it with you all. In any normal MMO, this topic would be irrelevant, but in CoA, a server among servers who cater to the role-playing niche of gamers, this is something you can think about to create a more enjoyable experience for yourself. People use these games to escape one, or more, of three things; Reality, Boredom, and Spouses.

    You could say it's not really much fun to put so much thought into a game that may, in the next five years, be as dead as a dodo and that, in the larger scheme of things, is useless to the overall adventure of our lives. You would be right. However, with everything we do, we all adapt a certain philosophy. In terms of gaming, this can differ; When you play a racing game, your aim is to win. When you play something like WoW, you want the best loot and a decent Guild to take you through the instances. If it's something like Diablo, it can go either way between getting to the end without dying, having the best loot to survive the big, bad thrice-come again title character, or just generally shitting on noobs left, right and centre whilst sucking down a bottle of Jack. (That would be me.)

    When it comes to CoA, it is clear everyone has their own ideas on what they find fun. Some people like to focus on the story-telling and then get mad when a DM doesn't want to be a part of their lesbian wedding, whilst others prefer to continually push for conflict with other players and then get mad when their shitty PvPing gets retconned by a DM. Who's right? Who's wrong? Noone. It all boils down to your own philosophy when sitting down for a stint of CoA. If you're at a crossroads as to what that may be for yourself and what exactly your playstyle is, let me give you an example of the two mindsets most commonly seen on CoA -

    @The:

    Player A, is the Conditional Roleplayer. He/She avoids PvP like the plague. They like to focus on the 'story' and sometimes reflect this with gimpy 'RP builds'. The 'story' can be one of several things, depending on the character. Their interactions with other characters - usually involving 'intruiging' relationships and consequences thereof - with a distinct preference to their 'enemy' being a DM NPC and/or a faction they can rally against with their buddies.

    Player A is less likley to trouble Player B (A PC Opponnent) unless they find themselves in large groups. And whilst they do find out some plot information, such as that Player B is contacting a Dragon IG to help them in their fight against Player A, they are not likley to pursue it any more than they have too. They will if a DM gets involved, however. If forced, they will engage PvP but refrain from dealing any killing blow - unsure if what they are doing is fair and above board. Good players but are more akin to static than moving pictures.

    @The:

    Player A, is the Conflictor Elitist. Villified for their insistance to jump on any chance to knock an opponnent of their legs and flex their amazingly sexy finger muscles. They enjoy abit of 'story' and use some pretty standard builds, with a few points here and there to reflect the nature of their character. They are usually impatient, don't like to wait for a DM ruling and often focus on bringing down opposing PCs - through their mechanical skill and matching wit. (Sometimes. I'm actually being kind to you fucks.)

    Player A is more likley to trouble Player B (A PC Opponnent) and will go out of their way to try and trap them. IE: Lead them somewhere, jump them with friends, act badass. When they do find out some plot information, such as that Player B is contacting a Dragon IG to help them in their fight against Player A, they will likley pursue this by finding Player B and kicking the living crap out of them. They are also more likley to find a reason to FD Player B, rather than find ways of scaring the shit outta them. Some have decided that limb removal is the best, most original method of doing this.

    Because we all know that's original.

    In a perfect server, players will mix aspects of both these playing philosophies. But this isn't a perfect server, and whilst some blur the lines, its these two lines of thinking that dominate CoA and make it what it is today. The perfect (simplified) scenario for that dragon buisness would probably be..

    Player A finds out that Player B is trying to speak to a dragon to gain their help.

    Player A decides to try and get to the dragon first and persuade the dragon to do something different.

    Player A and Player B meet up on the way to the dragon, they engage in some climatic PvP, perhaps even resulting in Permadeath.

    So instead of avoiding it, you meet the challenge. Instead of going to kill the bastard, you decide to get there first. Can you see how this is an example of extending a story without making it ridiculous? This is PvP in its purest form. We all understand the importance of it, and that player-killing is an integral consequence. What most players can't do, I believe, is realising that win/loss is irrelevant to the greater story. That sometimes, just sometimes, your character is not the bloody hero or the big, bad villain. You can be, sure, but most of the time you won't be. Most of the time we are all pieces to a larger puzzle. We all know how to create our characters, we all have our ways of developing them, but how do we treat them? What is our playing philosophy? I'll tell you mine.

    I don't give a fuck.

    That is my philosophy. I do not see my character as my character. I see my character as a character in a story. What do I mean? Well.. imagine, for a moment, that we are all actors. CoA is a bloody long movie. When we log in, the camera is on us, how we act out our characters is how the audience will see us. What are we going to do? Are we going to look for a friend and trade some dialogue? Pursue a plot? Maybe do a few quests? It's all really up to you. But what is, and should remain a constant, is the level of attachment you apply to your character - Say I made an enemy. Say I made a few enemies. Say they want to hunt me down because I did some shit to their friends or I'm really becoming a thorn in their side. If these guys want to come and kill me straight out, I'm cool with that, I'll happily engage in some PvP and I'll tell them such if they ask me in a tell - as long as its IC and there has been some history between the two, it's fine. I don't care. If these guys want to extend the story abit and want any PvP between us to not result in FD, I'm fine with that too. If I catch them alone, I won't kill them. We have agreed to this OOCly. It is mutual. Like a script, we are all on stage, and we're following a script that we are making up as we go along.

    I enjoy playing villains and I acknowledge that defeat is a part of this game. When I play heroes, I understand that villains have a shit harder job than I do and I'll usually go easy on them - But I won't often break my character - I also understand that heroes don't always come out ontop. Again, this is where communication between players is key. When two people realise that tension is heating up between their characters, acknowledging this and letting eachother know they are cool with PvP or FD or whatever for future reference is the best thing you can do.

    Now this may lead to a problem - To what extent do players allow such creativity to adjudge how a story plays along Vs. their inner desire to see their character come out on top? Don't deny it. Fuckers, I know you all want to win. I know you all secretly want to be that character where NPCs start kneeling down before you, doing god-knows-what. It's natural. We're competitive by nature and if we're not confident with ourselves in a PvP situation, we turn to the alternative "I hate PvP, blah blah blah. Save the Earth." bullshit that so many players like to employ. If PvP was as easy as making spaghetti, would you say that? Nope. NWN is a simple game to understand, if you've been playing it for years but don't understand the bare minimum, then you know.. I really wouldn't want to watch you handle Diablo 3.

    But I digress, my philosophy makes me very flexible with what you guys can do with my characters. It makes me very easy to kill off.. but also very easy to play along with. What is so hard about coming up with something climatical for your character to engage my character in? Why are you in such a rush to down hundreds of potions, buff yourself to high heaven and then run into a PvP situational clearly looking for a win? Here's an example of how something, agreed between two players, can work out…

    @Le:

    One of my characters was an absolute villain. Born villain, you might say. He was unredeemable. Hunted by the EO, the Tymorans, the Purple Dragons. Fucking everyone. I was stalking through the sewers one day when I came across one of the bounty hunters after my head. The player and I get along well OOCly, but ICly, we fucking hate eachother. You might as well say my character slept with his sister, dated his mum and then killed his dad for all the hate that was in this dude. So here is my enemy, walking around, not realising I am stealthed and watching him fumble about. I decide to unstealth. For some reason, we did not attack eachother - we traded dialogue, as two actors might in a film, we began to circle eachother and soon it become something akin to a scene of one of Sergio Leones movies.. complete with awesome music. The tension was built, but we didn't jump to our consumables, no. We unsheathed our weapons and traded a few blows and then retreated.. like two boxers in a match. We gave eachother time to emote our characters reactions to being hurt, or striking one-another, or how the dialogue was effecting our character. One of us popped a potion, and the other remarked on his cowardice.. we traded blows again, as if the duel was some climatic duel in a Lord of the Rings film. Eventually, we got eachother near death. ICly, our characters were battered and tired. We down some more consumables and kept going, not really intending to beat eachother but rather playing out our characters struggles in this duel - we didn't care who would win or what would happen if we lost - this was a scene between two characters we created and we were playing it out for our enjoyment.

    When he was knocked to the ground, I could have easily killed him. In fact, I coulda just hit him with an IMS gem and end it from the start. I didn't. My character was back to near death, I decided he would want to retreat. He kicked away his enemies sword, said something akin to "Next time we meet, do not expect my mercy." and then downed an invis potion and escaped, clutching his wounds.

    A few days later, and I find out said bounty hunter was ganked in a two second attack from invis. So tell me, CoA, what sounds more fun? To you 'PvPers' and you 'RPers'? Imagine if we all had that level of trust amongst us? Sometimes PvP should not be about mechanics. Sometimes it's just being mature and being open to anything - even if it means not 'winning'.



  • I don't have much to add because you said it all but if there was a like button for these boards I would have done so already.



  • I think I fall more into the first category you mentioned. Partly because of my own inability to use mechanics right and partly out of fear for the second category PCs to ROFLPWN me at first chance with all their consumables (the two reasons are tied).

    The middle ground is best, as you illustrated, and I would love to enter situations like that, but I don't wish to try since I expect others to just jump at the second option to end my concept prematurely or without offering any fun. But this might just be my predjudice.



  • Interesting read indeed and it kind of with finesse describes what I would say is:

    I do not play to simulate a real world, the real world is good enough fro that.

    I play to experience adventures and a saga. A great story beyond what I can experience in my real life. (below I is the character I am playing)

    Therefore it is totally uninteresting to be mugged for cash i th eslums no matter how realistic or well played this would be. I am not the slightest interested in being bullied for no reason other than the other perosn being a bully or to be killed in a ride by shooting.

    It does not make it alot better if any of the above is done with the pretext that I am to be stopped from something.

    What I love is to die doing something heroic/sinster where the plot line has run its course to a climax and the death is framed in a beautiful end to the saga I was part of.

    Example:

    My character Serion was part of the Harpers and they made an attack (successful) to bring water back to Arabel. They were however framed and held accountable for the death of a War Wizard and they faced death penalty. Instead of waiting for the tedious court and argue the case the gang decided to die fighting. OOCly the enemy was forwarned so he could have his gang gathered.

    Notably this villain ( I am quite sure it was Tobin Sett) had met Serion several times and it was always a risk for him that Serion was hiding nearby loosing sneak arrows into his body, but it was never done being sure to deliver death. There was always a retreat (that was used) until this final stand off.

    Now in the hunt in the sewers the groups met twice. The first time split up by DM intervention (cool intervention that made sense) and the second time the fight was to the end. The fight was likely decided from Serions PoV by a bad save roll against death magic. (about 50 % chance of death).

    The end was glorious but failed as evil won the day. Loved dying in this way and even though it might have been nice at the moment to win the day, it did really not matter in the end as I hade been part of a great story.

    That said, in CoA I see very little of the first example and alot of the last example.



  • I like every aspect of the server.

    -I like questing. Questing is fun. Questing provides me with gold and XP. Questing is a great way to get to know other chars too.

    -I like storytelling. I like making hard decisions, taking interest in other characters and having others take an interest in mine. (the two go hand in hand, very few ppl will give a shit about you if you take no interest in theirs). I love Seeing a new char go from zero to a big time mover and shaker on the server.
    I love it when your character is tested by the actions of another char. For example, just yesterday my char was faced with a choice between upholding the law, as he is sworn to do, and taking the only man he considered close to a friend to face the death penalty, or to look past a crime.

    -I love pvp. I love conflict between characters, factions, tempers flying between chars, etc. I happen to be in a position where it can be said that i occasionally "force" pvp upon others, for example when doing random searches for bloodstones. People who don't want to be searched tend to seek to escape or to act defiantly and expect no consequences.

    I don't tend to have a specific style in this matter but a mix between all 3. I try and make any decision that my character would make and don't seek or avoid pvp. I rarely hunt bad guys down except when they've made extensive threats and never without reason.

    I don't like when people kill for the sake of killing. I also do not like when people play their characters as very defiant and badass, but are then almost insulted when called on that very behavior and forced into conflict because of the very way their char behaved.

    I think if people were less intent on just winning and having their char be THE badass and THE boss, we'd have more mature pvp.



  • Im tired of trying to be diplomatic and will pull the leaf from the mouth and be sinisterly blunt for once. I am getting saddened whenever I log in. I live and breath for this place. I love my fellow players here, and most if not all the dms are people who I use to play with and call friends. Good ones at that. And I know because I have experienced it here once, what people can create in unity when they really want it. Storytelling that blows your mind, nerveruining roleplay that leaves you with 3 hours of sleep before going to work, because you wouldnt dream of not seeing the end of a plot / Quest / Interaction.

    I dont experience that anymore, for several reasons. And in the below, YOU also means ME.

    1. Players actively SHY AWAY from conflict. They have become way, way, way too scared of risking it all. Abbys script of gear loss is evidence of this. The whole Faction conflicts, or rather lack thereof, is evidence of this. The lack of FD can likely be traced to this as well. The many dm raises, or raise dead scrolls or whatever from dm quests, are evidence of this.

    2. When you then engage in PVP, you do so to win at all costs. Not to tell the best story, but to WIN. Meaning Buff to kingdom come, ambush from invisibility, and unfulfilling PVP encounters in general are because of this. The old days of duellings TO THE DEATH, are rare to the point of never happening, because if you lose, you WILL lose.

    3. The dms seem to have vanished, with emphasis on seem. They conduct damage control, they run their own plots, or run half way through them to then vanish out of frustration. Instead of taking the reign, and showing the way by example, the crappy communication between DM Team and Community leads to more frustrations which leads to fewer dm logged hours IG.
      The rare dm interaction also leads to dm interaction mainly being given to those who know how to ask for it, which means the dm factions recieve very different support.

    All of this leads to damage control being done by the Dm Team. V5 is a mythical thing, where many of us hope we can start over. Yet if the entire player base has quit from frustrations, and the dm team vanishes from similar symtoms, then V5 will be a beautiful but empty server.

    1. People have forgotten, that not every death can be fulfilling, not every end can be a duel to the death over hot lava with your arch nemesis. In Star Wars, such a duel happened ONCE. Yet Obi One died, Yoda died, Lukes father died, and 1000 other characters through the epic tale. Not everyone can be the star. If Anakins mother hadnt died, he would never have come to his epic end. If All the other main characters hadnt died i nthe way they did, the story would be dull as hell.
      Hells, even in Twillight, people die, i think.

    My solution? Start to talk about this with your enemies IG. If you dont want to die, then shy away IG but do so consistantly. If My Villian sees your character in the slums and tries to mug him, if you pay the 100 gold… Then what have you lost? Your character survived. Show fear. Be scared. If your character has something worth fighting for, and dying for, then do so. But dont play a ballsy No fear Paladin of Torm who pisses off every bad guy on the server, unless you are willing to risk it all. Play something else?

    Or start risking it. Dont only discuss your plots behind closed doors. OPEN the doors. Tell Non faction people of your plans. Let others in on your secrets. My old noble house Obarstal, had at least 2 or 3 spies ion it, spilling our secrets. I knew most of them OOC. But I let them stay without suddenly trying to hide things. Its why we lost, but also why I had the most fun ever with a character.



    1. People have forgotten, that not every death can be fulfilling, not every end can be a duel to the death over hot lava with your arch nemesis. In Star Wars, such a duel happened ONCE. Yet Obi One died, Yoda died, Lukes father died, and 1000 other characters through the epic tale. Not everyone can be the star. If Anakins mother hadnt died, he would never have come to his epic end. If All the other main characters hadnt died i nthe way they did, the story would be dull as hell.

    Fantastic to have Star Wars as the world of wisdom… 😃

    All those deaths had meaning and made the story go forward and actually it would not have been a waste of time "playing" them.

    What would have been boring would have been playing Luke after making his background and plotted his future and then being shot at the bar inthe space port just for saying something stupid.

    Look instead at the wonderful plot coming from NOT killing Han Solo.

    However I do share the view that a loss must be wagered anyway you put it. And that being a level 1 paladin you should possibly not spit in the face of the sheriff and call him evil unless you are willing to end the story prematurely. Sometimes characters must also be played as cowards.



  • BG, your points are good but I don't agree with them. I think it is a very idealistic view of PvP. We will never enforce a rule that states you need to circle your enemy, and RP the entire fight. It just isn't feasible. Nor could you expect it of players. This isn't a film as much as we all would like it to be (The production values would be amazing). Films are wholly unrealistic. The Villain explaining his plan to James Bond before killing him isn't going to do that in real life is he? He is going to lay waste to Bond as soon as he see's him. If you want to get a movie script out of people you will be waiting a long long time. They are carefully edited pieces of writing that go through about ten different people before a final product is mocked up. You cannot achieve this kind of quality IG as everything is done on the spot. We strive for the best obviously but not all players are accomplished Rp'ers who know the ins and outs of making PvP awesome. That is why it is important that more expirienced players teach them about it. I am sure if I came across a friend IG and we ended up fighting we would do this because we can trust one another. But what you're speaking of is incredibly rare and needs two players who know the other character won't destroy them.

    The rules are simple and clear for PvP. Don't jump to the kill, make it enjoyable for all characters involved and be fair. You tick these boxes and not a single player can moan at you. (They can moan about losing, but who wouldnt?). If you play an intense concept and make a lot of enemies, expect to have your ass beaten. If you hang out in dangerous places a lot expect to be jumped from invisibility. (It is completely fair to jump from invisibility and is not frowned upon). It is about using your brain more often than not. Sure take risks, they are what make the game fun but don't moan when they backfire on you. Enjoy the difficulty of playing hard concepts. Way I look at it, if COA had a moderation setting it would go like this.

    Good



  • What if Greedo shot Han in the face?

    What happens to Han's story then?

    PvP with the goal of eliminating your enemies permanently is the most efficient way of making sure no one wants to join your plots.



  • Greedo would have lived 😉

    A bit trollsy response, but star wars doesn't count much as a valid argument in CoA. How would Greedo's player have felt after giving Han a cool speech and he shoots him dead right away?

    It can't really be compared, so let's not try and do so.



  • I am not saying go out there and kill all your enemies. I am just saying if you are walking around laying claim to being Evil Mc Evilson who is going to lay waste to the City of Arabel don't be suprised when you end up spiked on top of the Sheriffs tower.



  • Hah! I want players striving for that idealistic PvP. There is nothing wrong with ideals!

    If you go straight for the Bad Guy, you'll stand a greater chance of winning CoA, but you'll likely have a very boring time, as well. Not only that, you'll probably be boring lots of other players. If you do target your enemy's plot rather than your enemy, you will likely draw out your conflict and make it much more fun for both you and your victim. That is not to say that you should refrain from the inevitable face off, but by targeting their plots, you delay the inevitable, and have much more chance at engaging in a variety of different conflict scenarios. Targeting the PC will result in swift combat. Do this two or three times, and someone has to die, or it degenerates into a series of boring and repetetive encounters that are decided on mechanical prowess.

    If you are level 5 and your enemy is level 9/10, by targeting his plots, you reduce the level difference. You stand much more chance of enjoying the conflict without having to mega-level up.



  • I TS knockdown spam yo plots!



  • I love conflict and pvp'ing. And the best part for me is when I get to fight win/lose and go back home to fight and intrigue with my enemy again! The more and more I get to build rivalry the more I like this server. I tend to go where that happens. I'm very sad to see Smeedly and Herbert go so easily. I lost my top enemies 😞



  • yeah I had a blast pvp with colorpants! mbuhahaha!

    I'd like to add the Bable's Apep beat herbert down TWICE and never finished him off. I'd like to thank him for that because herbert's lyssen stint would have never happened if Bable just decided to kill him off (which his character had reason to).

    oh diveing into the lyss plot I knew eventually I was gonna be ganked. If you accept it from the start it's easier on you when it happens.



  • The adrenaline rush is like crack cocaine in PvP, especially when I'm outnumbered. Love it. Do it all the time.



  • @Stooge:

    BG, your points are good but I don't agree with them. I think it is a very idealistic view of PvP. We will never enforce a rule that states you need to circle your enemy, and RP the entire fight. It just isn't feasible. Nor could you expect it of players. This isn't a film as much as we all would like it to be (The production values would be amazing). Films are wholly unrealistic. The Villain explaining his plan to James Bond before killing him isn't going to do that in real life is he? He is going to lay waste to Bond as soon as he see's him. If you want to get a movie script out of people you will be waiting a long long time. They are carefully edited pieces of writing that go through about ten different people before a final product is mocked up. You cannot achieve this kind of quality IG as everything is done on the spot. We strive for the best obviously but not all players are accomplished Rp'ers who know the ins and outs of making PvP awesome. That is why it is important that more expirienced players teach them about it. I am sure if I came across a friend IG and we ended up fighting we would do this because we can trust one another. But what you're speaking of is incredibly rare and needs two players who know the other character won't destroy them.

    You're right, my example was extremely rare but it is an example of what myself, as a player log in and strive to do. I have no worries about being soundly beaten or being allowed to live. My characters are at the disposal of others. I can easily let go of my characters. That is at the core of what I wanted to get across. The middle ground between the two extremes - that is, in my opinion, the best philosophy to take into CoA.



  • In the early days of V3 I would argue that there was plenty of PvP conflict that was extremely meaningful and laid ground work for things to come through the entire length of V3. This PvP rarely ended in FD killing of any characters, though that happened sometimes. It wasn't all clicking the little red guy on your screen and spamming your favorite combinations of quick access keys like your'e some sort of console junkie. It was PvP through taunts, foiled plans, use of henchmen/hirelings, attacks against the other player's faction, theft, thwarting of actions, sabotage, rumor, innuendo, intrigue. Sometimes it was a meeting engagement where one side or the other got lucky, and sometimes it was a full up ambush. Rarely did it involve one side being fully prepared and setting upon the other fully buffed when they were at their weakest. It never involved no chance of escape, and if it did, it was well understood that it had reached that point, by all parties.

    I played a guard character for most of these early days and here is how my normal day started in game. I logged in and checked the player list. I was a "good guy" and I opposed the "bad guys" (I'll call them bad guys not just because I think I was a good guy and that I characterize my enemy that way, but because in the early days of V3, there were good guys and bad guys and the bad guys were proud to be bad guys. We had lots less moral ambiguity in those old days). If the bad guys didn't notice me and set me to hostile, I'd go through the list and set them to hostile. That way, if we ran into each other and someone wanted to "go" then all those bad guys who used spells (not me) would not be disadvantaged. If the bad guys didn't beat me to it, I'd send a tell OOCly to the bad guys I recognized on the list to let them know I was going to be playing for x amount of time, in case they were interested in including me in their activities and mostly just to say hi. There would usually be some good natured threats of death, dismembment, arrest, execution, whatever. This was not the exception, but the general rule (as far as I'm aware) between the folks in the "law factions" and the folks in the "not-law factions". We were all here to have fun and to run our stories, simultaneously, and in opposition, without killing everyone elses fun.

    You see, it was okay for the other guy to get away in those days. He could "get lucky" either for real or because you let him. No NPCs were firing people because the bad guy just got away because of some bad luck on your part or good luck on his part, or whatever. The engagement occured, the action was significant, the adrenaline was flowing, it was close and exciting and in the end, someone almost always got away. This wasn't the end of the world, it was the extension of it. This meant that the next time I logged in, I might get to almost catch Raice Bannon, or I might get to cross swords with Anen before something let one of us break contact and get away. It meant that for another day or week or month, I'd get to uncover pieces of their story, while they got to uncover pieces of mine. This went on for months, sometimes years, in V3.

    At some point, in any of these situations, the music stops, the ugly lights come on, and someone has to go home. In V3, it was inevitably the "bad guy" who would lose due to the nature of the server setting. There were too many "good guy" NPCs that would only tolerate so much badguyness before it was too much. When this happened, it was clear to all sides. The bad guys knew that the end was near and they rushed to their chosen conclusion (this bad guy position is what I believe and think I observed, please any of you bad guys from back then clarify if I got this totally wrong). This often times would have OOC notice given. I personally sent OOC tells to multiple of the bad guys when the limit had been reached and let them know that the next time we crossed swords, it was for all the marbles, whichever way it went.

    This "all the marbles" time wasn't a week into the conflict, it was usually after long months, and often after the bad guy had accomplished his goals and had a great time doing it. Sometimes the bad guys would just say "hey, I'm done. I did what I wanted and I'm ready to go whenever". Most of the time, this ended up with bad guy arrested and thrown in jail. If the NPCs (DMs) weren't done with their storyline, or if other PCs weren't done with them, sometimes they escaped, sometimes they came back from the dead, sometimes they became something scary, or a NPC to terrorize us later. Sometimes, they just got on their evil looking horse and rode satisfied into the sunset with a tell that their next character was going to be more ebol and you'd best watch out. it was almost always in good fun and sportsmanship OOCly, eventhough it was cut throat ICly. Sometimes people got rubbed the wrong way and we tried to work through it OOCly. On more than one occaission, after I got the short end of the stick, one of the "bad guys" would apologize for my bad luck or whatever, sometimes even making sure that someone would find my body/stuff and hoping that I'd play if I got raised.

    Quite a few times, the bad guys would have given a new guy exactly what he deserved. One good example was a rather new character decided he needed to talk a lot of smack to the uber criminal of the server at the time. Random new guy was given multiple times to back down and didn't and got beaten down (not killed) and left with a few less coins in his wallet with a warning by uber criminal. ICly, he could have easily justified killing random new guy but cut him slack and gave him a ver explicit warning. Random new guy stumbles upon uber bad guy an hour later while he's talking to an associate and random new guy picks another fight with uber bad guy. Uber bad guy tries to give him multiple outs and random new guy isn't biting and starts swinging his sword. Uber bad guy fights defensively (I think he used parry) but ends up killing random new guy (and this time FD). he then does what all smart bad guys do, he grabs a little out of the purse and hauls behind.

    Uber bad guy knows I'm on because he sent me a tell earlier on and says if I'm not too busy I might want to go secure new guys stuff so some random noob doesn't run off with all of it. Random new guy respawns and when he comes running to his stuff, rather than having been full looted, I'm there to give him his stuff, make sure he's okay, tell him how lucky he is to have only been killed by uber bad guy and not been turned into some sort of undead spawn, and take his police report, adding to the story of uber bad guy.

    I pretty much quit when the relationship between players who played "bad guys" and players who played "good guys" ended OOCly and it was all about someone winning everytime you ran into each other. When it became every engagement seeming to end the other character's story, I found it too miserable to want to do anymore. Playing the game was no longer friendly competition between me and my friends, it became a neverending contest to see who had larger digital genitals. I have to assume the other guys enjoyed that, but it wasn't doing anything for me and soon after it got that way, I got out of it.

    If V5 is going to be successful, regardless of what the DMs do, the players have to figure out how to conflict with each other without poking everyone in the eye with their genitals so they can feel good about themselves. Feel good about yourself because of how you furthered your story and the other guy's story at the same time without cutting either off mid-stream. Feel good about yourself because you're having a good time with your friends, not because you're crushing the pathetic noob on the other side of the internet.

    Really, if its all about you crushing noobs, play Call of Duty or some NWN arena server. CoA "WAS" about stories. I'm not sure what is is about anymore.



  • @aldrien:

    A whole load of probably well informed things from a time I didnt play

    Sounds awesome.

    I don't see the things you talk about though myself, server is still jammed full of awesome conflict, sabotage, backstabbing, intrigue, and various forms of conflict not involving death by e-penis.

    I'd like to see someone with your experience and attitude show some people how it was done 'in the good ol days' because that would be sweet. Come play.



  • very rarely do i read the longer posts, but i read aldriens….i agree with what you have to say

    in those days Aldrien..just the name of your character Oliver Baba held significant power among certain groups

    i still remember a pvp mugging i stumbled upon, i wandered invisible behind the half orc as he prepared to mug a character silly enough to wander through the slums at that time, i simply said.."you do not want to do that" ..he roared "why" as the erstwhile victim dashed to safety leaving me at the mercy of the hulking half orc.

    i replied because i was not the only one watching him..this peeked his curiosity...he needed to know who was watching him, i told him Oliver Baba was, you were not on (i knew and and i am sure he knew it too), and the other player could have easily metagamed this as well and simply mugged me, but he did not, and in the end i made a new in game friend and saved some random person from a in game mugging

    that is the type of PvP i relish


Log in to reply