CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!



  • Okay? But when it's hard to get XP - I pretty much only get XP from DM events these days since server population isn't quite back up - it just serves to screw over crafters. Which is a huge problem when the game is consumable heavy.

    Fix the reliance on buffs and consumables, then we can talk about staple buffs being too common. Having 40 shield potions won't win PVP - they'll just make it so people can last longer on DM events, so people don't bail halfway through due to lacking consumables, which we've actually had occur recently. Having 2 scrolls of Mestil's Acid Sheathe will win PVP, but not do much for a DM event.



  • Crystal, your argument is how this will directly affect your PC rather than how it affects the balance of the server.

    Thanks for raising the issue CB. DMs and Storytellers will discuss what we think is the best way of implementation to reinstate some sort of crafting cost over the next few days and hopefully implement soon.


  • Admin [DM]

    @CrystalRL Part of the reason there is a reliance on consumables is because they can be churned out essentially infinitely at pretty much no personal cost to the crafter. Us implementing this WOULD be part of us fixing the reliance on buffs and consumables.



  • I am curious, do we have any specific incidents to cite or is this more of an "educated" theory based on mechanical knowledge?

    I've never been a high level Wizard that can scribe high level spells, on ANY server. I have not been involved in high level PvP either, so I may not fully understand the power levels of things at higher level. I just think tacking on an additional cost seems too easy, when there might be alternatives(that I haven't thought about yet, to be fair).



  • No, introducing +3 deflection AC and +2 natural AC items would. You can make the buffs less of a necessity by introducing items that do slightly less than or the same job.



  • Or just get rid of most/all consumables.

    Chain chugging healing potions and other things from an IC perspective is silly. xD

    But that would be a bad suggestion that I think 99% of people would not like. Though, I would be a fan of more vanilla things, like actually using feats that give these bonuses instead of skipping over them. Like expertise/imp expertise and that sort of thing.


  • Admin [DM]

    @lunatichigh I have played a moderately high leveled wizard, I am not good at the class. I am not good at PvP. Being able to churn out scrolls essentially won me PvPs against far more skilled players just by the merit of having enough of them.

    Acid Sheath, Firebrand, Tensers if you're high enough level. Scrolls at gold cost alone mean you can have as many of these spells in your back pocket to cheese any combat. Get dispelled? Just pop another scroll.



  • We're not eliminating consumables. They're a massive part of NWN game engine and make combat far more engaging/interactive.

    You can still make great use of things like expertise, but we're getting a little off topic here.

    Let's keep any other constructive comments towards good format for crafting costs that we're looking to implement.

    Thanks!



  • C5+ consumables are what win PVP.



  • My 2 cents.

    I actually prefer a world where potions are rare and wands even more, like CoA v2 or v3, but craft wand/potion needs a lot more care because it can reduce PVE as well.

    XP cost for scrolls should be applied and it shouldn't be small. It directly changes the result of a PVP battle, it can impact another player's good time for worse.

    If there's a XP toll and suddenly potions or wands become luxury we might end up with people giving up on questing simply because they don't have an optimal party. So it doesn't really matter if quests can be soloed or not, people simply won't do it (or at least the majority won't).

    So, at one side of the spectrum potions and wand make up for lack of players, but takes away the importance of party/class formation.



  • I will be addressing consumables in an upcoming post, so let's stick to XP cost in general please.

    I personally think that low level consumables should not cost xp, as was pointed out, they're bothersome enough to make already.


  • Storyteller [DM]

    low level consumables typically can be bought at stores and arent particularly expensive.

    most players seem to be running around with thousands of gps on their characters so the cost of a few low level potions/wands is not a great deal against this if there are no casters that are willing to spend their xp on supporting their faction.

    higher level scrolls is an issue maybe with respect to cost, but then you end up making the choice do i "need" this or do i " want" this scroll.

    you want to trade scrolls... there is a cost to learning that new spell, that seems fair enough i think


  • Builders Guild

    @Cadiz

    Who has thousands of gold ? 😞

    Tell me howww!

    I think we're drifting off topic slightly. I think exp in crazy scrolls makes sense, as it's there to discourage hording scrolls powerful scrolls to an extent.


  • Admin [DM]

    this will be addressed.



  • @SpiffyMeister said in CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!:

    this will be addressed.

    The best way is probably to just put the original game code back in (it's probably commented out)

    It was always fine. Limitations to being able to create items make the items have actual value.


  • Admin [DM]

    @Zool said in CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!:

    @SpiffyMeister said in CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!:

    this will be addressed.

    The best way is probably to just put the original game code back in (it's probably commented out)

    It was always fine. Limitations to being able to create items make the items have actual value.

    We'll look into our options, but this is a decent alternative



  • I'm worried for wizards however.
    This is basically a penalty that makes it harder to gain efficiency (levels) that penalizes gaining efficiency (more spells). Maybe learning a scroll could give the same xp writing one burns?
    This way they could still learn shit from each other without a penalty.



  • I suppose that wouldn't be a bad idea, but it'd have to be limited after a certain point, to stop wizards stockpiling all of their scrolls until level 10/11 and then learning them all for a several thousand XP boost.



  • Or make it so it only works after writing a scroll, but before next reset.



  • I don't see myself saving scrolls for this purpose. Scrolls of spells I could, in theory, use. Or even trade for new spells, if i had the capability to write them.