CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!



  • Alright guys. It's your favourite bearer of bad news that'll earn me the hate of half of you and dislike from the rest!

    There's a lot of things that need to be addressed so i'll do one every 2 days or so, so that one can be discussed properly before moving on to the next one.

    The first one is: XP cost for scrolls!
    XP cost being removed from certain things in crafting is fine. Wands is probably pretty great, lower level scrolls is okay, potions is fine, but the high level scrolls REALLY need to have an XP cost put on them. With the amount of money caster especially, tend to have, and how common lvl 13 and above is at this point, we should really be reinstating xp cost of scrolls. If all scrolls is considered too extreme, at least scrolls above 4th level, so we can balance it with wands.

    People being able to craft scrolls of shadow shield, acid sheath, firebrand, tenser's and all that stuff every time they can rest is really, really horrible. Even WITH XP cost, those scrolls are worth it considering how easy XP is to come by now.

    A scroll of stuff like shadow shield should have gigantic XP cost associated with it.

    Anyways, discuss away!



  • He's 100% right.


  • Admin [DM]

    Seems reasonable, not sure how it would be implemented though



  • Reinstate original XP cost for scroll, make it for only spells above 4th level, and most importantly, make sure that if you don't have the XP to craft the scroll without delevelling, that you'd get an error message and not craft the scroll.


  • Admin [DM]

    How big would the xp loss be? I recall it scaling depending on scroll level, but perhaps we should put a flat xp fee.



  • I'd go with scroll level. With eh ease of XP, i'd even go as far as to make it 250 xp per level for every level above 4th.

    5th: 250xp
    6th: 500xp
    7th: 750xp

    Scrolls of that power are not meant to be mass produced as consumables. And a wizard trading a 7th level spell with another wizard -should- be a big deal, not a casual crafting of the spell of murderous doom.


  • Storyteller [DM]

    with the ease of getting xp up to the 4th level tier these days I don't see why xp cost shouldn't be reinstated on all crafting tbh, especially as all quests are open to all levels.

    when I see people going from 6th to about 12th in half a dozen quests it makes me wonder if arguing about the few hundred xp for crafting is a legitimate concern anymore.



  • Because crafters who are near the level cap still get screwed if they have XP costs for items that are considered necessary, like shield wand/potions. I make a lot of healing wands, and I get a grand total of 1 XP from doing Nadie's Kitten (which isn't even working since Nadie has gone missing now).


  • Admin [DM]

    XP loss with crafting sucks tbh, I am fine with OP scrolls but day to day crafting shouln't cost XP. It's dull enough


  • Storyteller [DM]

    I'm with Puffy. XP cost sucks for crafters. OP scrolls though should have one. We can start there and if needed, throw in the 4th level stuff (scroll, wand) in also should things need more balancing. Potions are easy to control, with recipes being needed for them.



  • While CB is probably right, shouldn't we consider other things first?

    Is the pace of leveling up final and where the team wants to see it?
    Is the amount of money we earn final and where the team wants to see it?

    If the answer is yes to both, fine, let us balance scrolls though!



  • @AronFF said in CB's unpopular series of critical balance changes. Part 1: Crafting and XP cost!:

    While CB is probably right, shouldn't we consider other things first?

    Yes, I would have though spell alterations would be important to get back, but don't object to any of this.



  • I agree with cb that we should stick an xp cost on scrolls.
    its different for wand/brew, since those are locked in to max circle 3 or 4, while scrolls have no circle cap.



  • All crafting should have an XP cost associated, IMO. With every quest open and many open to solo, there’s no reason people shouldn’t have to be active as well as gold rich.

    This is also a measure to ensure people don’t essentially fill a niche of a wand/potion bot.



  • What's wrong with people filling that niche if they want to?



  • Unlimited gold, no penalty.



  • Isn't that a play style? What if you play a character that literally does that? What if you are actively RPing and trying to do things while being helpful to other people by making it cheaper to buy potions/wands AND make money doing so?

    This is my first real experience playing a Wizard and if you make crafting(which I generally HATE doing in any game)harder, I probably won't look at playing them anymore.

    Besides, do not forget that this is a game and not a Fantasy Simulator. Remember the Fun. I'd trademark that but I don't know how to do the symbol. >_>


  • Admin [DM]

    Have to agree with Bowser on this one. With XP now far more freely available even to high level players there is no excuse not to spend it on crafting.

    PCs are adventurers who might have a mercantile sideline, not merchants who occasionally adventure.



  • Those vendors better be adventuring too!



  • This /is/ about fun. There needs to be balance to keep certain things in check, and when those things grow far too vastly out of check, we need to adjust them to ensure things stay fair and fun for all involved.