Bard Skill Point Increase



  • Bards are a class who are synonymous with being skill slaves. Yet rogues get the UMD they do, way more damage, and way more skills.

    Bards should get at least as many skill points as ranger.


  • Admin [DM]

    I am fine with this.



  • So very much this.... bards are supposed to be jack of all trades, master of none. But instead are either master of very few traits or "shit at everything" >.>



  • Doable, and I like this change.


  • Admin [DM]

    In my view, bards are not supposed to max out everything. That's what jack of all trades means, that they aren't specialized and maxed out in everything.

    It's probably more than checks demand maxing than a skill point issue. Maybe if checks used a combination of skills instead of a single roll..

    But in lieu of that, more skill points can work.



  • Skills a bard wants would be:

    1: Concentration
    2: Discipline
    3: Spellcraft
    4: Tumble
    5: Heal
    6:Perform
    7-9: Social skills
    10: lore
    11-12 (for dex bards): Hide and move silently
    13: Taunt
    14: UMD
    15: Listen

    Even with 2 additional skill points no bard can max out everything they want. Currently though, they're hard pressed spreading points between what they really need.


  • Admin [DM]

    Posted in DM forums for discussion. We'll let you know soon. I agree they should have 6 points.



  • One of the hardest things when I played Bards, was that you needed 14+ INT and human to get enough skill points to feel even remotely effective. Upping it would definately help alot.



  • @CitizenBane Persuade as well, CB.



  • Persuade is counted as a social skill, Haq


  • Storyteller [DM]

    bards are jack of all trades, accept mediocrity and you get where they are supposed to be or you chose where to specialise, bearing in mind that there are lots of items/spells/buffs that bards can use to enhance their skills that are available either through their spells/songs/ig items they do fine in my experience.

    i have played a few multiclass bards that were melee based and very good at that
    i have played pure bards that were excellent healers/support
    i have played a fey touched one that was an enchantment specialist that was silly good in a very niche role



  • Yes, and all of those can be done far better by other classes.

    There's jack of all trades, and then jack of no trades. Bards currently fall in the latter, with 15 class skills and only 4 skill points - 6 if they do 14 INT, and that's still not even half!



  • @CrystalRL said in Bard Skill Point Increase:

    Yes, and all of those can be done far better by other classes.

    There's jack of all trades, and then jack of no trades. Bards currently fall in the latter, with 15 class skills and only 4 skill points - 6 if they do 14 INT, and that's still not even half!

    Pretty sure bard/fighter is one of the strongest melee builds in the game (or was with the old level cap). One of shark's PCs managed to get lethal AB and damage, and thought a Banite had a build along those lines when they were rocking. A couple extra skill points would not harm, or maybe something like a slight buff to social skills so you dont need to sink points into them.

    I think the main thing for bard is player numbers, also getting rid of the old theater was a shame, always thought that was a nice building to fish for plots and area for meetings. Skul, Lannister and I had a really nice plot with a bard that never came to fruition. We were going to try and take over a brothel by cursing it with a song!



  • Bard/Fighter is strong due to (1) modified songs, (2) extra survivability from fighter when using curse song, and (3) access to UMD or Tumble. Notice how I say "or". There's no room for both in a split build, nor room to benefit from other skills, like persuade. (Bards, it turns out, don't even get intimidate!)



  • Bard/fighter was not one the strongest. It was one of the most fun versatile ones, but certainly not strongest



  • Yeah. Bards need more wiggle room in terms of skillpoints.



  • Any word on this yet?


  • Admin [DM]

    This requires a 2da hak update. We're discussing if we want to implement a few more changes before we update the haks.