Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind


  • Crown Forces

    So this thread https://nodebb.cityofarabel.com/topic/41432/so-let-s-talk-about-cheating-and-why-it-happens-no-pedantry-please got me thinking about the grind.

    When I came back, I brought a friend with me to CoA. He was pretty excited for the game, being a buddy of mine in our roll20 D&D game he's no stranger to roleplay and had played the core NWN campaigns back in the day. He heard me rave about CoA and decided to roll up a few characters with me.

    Because of the level loss on death, and him bouncing constantly between 5 and 3, he ended up stop playing. At the same time I gave up on my first character because of the same issue and rolled Raynor probably with WAY more con then I should have, but once bit, twice shy.

    Dying and having to earn back what you previously earned and lost sucks. While I agree that death needs to mean something, perhaps there could be a friendly middle ground? Most people just roleplay getting hit too hard, or being knocked unconscious, lose their level and respawn, and in a lot of cases I can tell the player is demoralized, like OOCly so.

    Could we have it so that up through like 5 or 6, instead of death you are subdued or maybe take XP away up to their current level? Remove the progress towards the next but let them keep what they have. Then you have the ramp of 6 or 7 being when death starts to happen and the penalties are what they are.

    I know our core ruleset is 3.5, but it seems that with 5e at least, the game designers realized level loss on death was not player friendly. They even added in Revivify with a 300gp diamond cost to give players the chance to raise a character as early as 3rd circle. I'm not saying we have to completely pivot away from deaths having meanings on CoA, but if D&D is seeing a renaissance of new players and part of that is how little death does impact new players, perhaps it's worth coming back and looking at this? I feel bad, because if it wasn't this brutal in the beginning I'm sure my buddy would still be playing.

    Cheers.


  • DMs

    Implementing the v6 changes for the death penalty right now would alleviate a lot of this, I imagine.


  • Crown Forces

    @SpiffyMeister I tried doing a search to see if there were any death penalty changes for v6, but I apparently suck at using the search function. Could you link me the thread they are discussed? I'm very curious now.

    Thanks!


  • Tilverton Village

    My very first character I ran was a Druid. She was never able to get past lvl 2 . She would hit three and die to a random spawn always. I know the feeling of the death.


  • DMs

    It was discussed in the dm forums, so you wouldn't be privy to it.

    Basically, each level is seen as a check point, and when you die, you simply go back to the start of the checkpoint.

    That make sense?


  • Crown Forces

    Ohhh, haha, that would make sense Spiffy. But yeah that was one of my suggestions above too:

    @mister-moosh said in Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind:

    Remove the progress towards the next but let them keep what they have.

    So yeah this checkpoint concept I personally think would go a long way and I know a few people that would appreciate it as well.

    Thanks for clarifying!


  • DMs

    I'm not 100% sure, but just in case:

    It is possible that the above mentioned XP system for V6 can change between now and when it is released.

    Just, you know, so if something happens, you can't all crucify Spiffy for "Lying"


  • DMs

    @zool said in Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind:

    I'm not 100% sure, but just in case:

    It is possible that the above mentioned XP system for V6 can change between now and when it is released.

    Just, you know, so if something happens, you can't all crucify Spiffy for "Lying"

    Yes, this is 100% subject to change, and while i feel it was the most 'liked' option, it was one of many things discussed and I might be using an outdated proposition.


  • DMs

    @spiffymeister

    Yep, as I remember it, it was definately very very close to what you said, possibly with a few minor techincal implcations to iron out or something. But yeah, we discuss so many things I forget which are under the finalised heading!


  • Crown Forces

    Either way it sounds like what you are thinking may be something to think about rolling out earlier once 100% finalized, especially with NWN:EE coming out and possible new people, etc, etc.

    Just a suggestion but I think this would go a long way with tiding people over til v6 officially gets going.


  • DMs

    @mister-moosh said in Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind:

    Either way it sounds like what you are thinking may be something to think about rolling out earlier once 100% finalized, especially with NWN:EE coming out and possible new people, etc, etc.

    Just a suggestion but I think this would go a long way with tiding people over til v6 officially gets going.

    Yeah, it'd also be a good way to find out how well it works, and if there are any technical problems with how it works, or suggestions from the community on better methods.


  • DMs

    @spiffymeister said in Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind:

    Implementing the v6 changes for the death penalty right now would alleviate a lot of this, I imagine.

    I'll review what we had planned and script this in now. No reason not to.

    The basic goal is 1 to 0 lost levels with a death. That also means though, increasing odds of death past the soft cap to ensure there is real risk since we'll cut down the affects of death and want to make sure there is a 'level range' and not sixty people at the soft cap.


  • DMs

    A lot of ways to do this, not all of them ideal. We'll try and get something right for a change. ;)


  • Crown Forces

    @mr-moloch I think this is more than fair, you get to the softcap and everything after that is fair game again to bring you back down to the softcap. I even called this out too originally.

    @mister-moosh said in Suggestion for the Issue of the Death Regrind:

    Then you have the ramp of 6 or 7 being when death starts to happen and the penalties are what they are.

    So 1 to 0 levels lost on getting to the softcap to your point but once the character is there, death has it's VERY significant drawback attached to it again. Would be cool to see roleplay around raising characters vs then just popping back up after being "knocked down".



  • At lvl 11, even something like 500 xp takes a huge time to gather, so tbh, the fear to go from 5000 xp after 11 to 11 with 0 xp would still be huge. :D

    And for lvls before 10, it already doesn't take that much time.


  • Crown Forces

    @mind-over-body I also feel that's where you really need to be roleplaying a death and looking for a Resurrection or a True Resurrection. I mean there has to be some incentive for these spells, right?



  • "Buuut offf courrrse!"

    :D

    Yes though, I'm curious as to how these spells will work with the new system.



  • I am... so excited for what’s being discussed here..


 

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