Thayan Arena



  • Something that came up in Discord -

    At the moment it’s a zero storytelling tool for well built characters to get loot that should be handed out to characters who push plots rather than swinging swords (this isn’t just my opinion)

    So this thread is for how it can be made more interesting.



  • It definitely favours people who are either power builds or are part of large groups.

    I recently fought for something from the second from the bottom category, with a level 9 character who was well equipped. The fight was one of the most difficult I have ever encountered, and had me facing not only a horde of zombies, a paladin who jumped in just to fuck with me, a doom knight, and a rotting giant which is an enemy that really isn't geared to one on one fights.

    This was for a relatively low powered trinket.



  • A lot of people use it to equip people who are in their faction. I mean, my recent fight, I aided a dwarf who had almost no relation to me, IC or OOCly (the player is sharkinajar). But now he is friendly towards me. So it definitely got me more of an RP reward.



  • @gloomy_sunday said in Thayan Arena:

    It definitely favours people who are either power builds or are part of large groups.

    I recently fought for something from the second from the bottom category, with a level 9 character who was well equipped. The fight was one of the most difficult I have ever encountered, and had me facing not only a horde of zombies, a paladin who jumped in just to fuck with me, a doom knight, and a rotting giant which is an enemy that really isn't geared to one on one fights.

    This was for a relatively low powered trinket.

    I quit doing arenas for this reason. You have to be fairly competent to win anything decent. At least you don't have to be raised anymore so fights are not terribly risky.


  • Admin [DM]

    • If you lose, there should be a penalty such as risk of perma death, loss of limbs or loss of an item of importance. Aka risk
    • Players should be able to opt for a longer fighter, in which they can use emotes to make the fighting entertaining
    • Some items should only be possible to fight for, if the player/group has done X to earn the honour
    • Groups should be able to get better rewards, than a solo fighter
    • Clear write up of the Thayan Arena, its history, champions and how it works on the forums and IG
    • More arena fights during a wider spread of TZs!

    Some suggestions



  • Thayan arena feels like a club, where those who are not mechanically inclined go to watch a fight, with no story impact, which rewards the potion guzzling spell huffing winner with OP gear.



  • I think the Thayan Arena is a nice way of allowing people who don't usually get DM loot to pick out something flavourful for their character and have fun with it.

    I think, to further the entertainment, players should mostly be allowed to ask what they fight within reason, like send a DM a tell like "Yo this'd be super entertaining/in flavour could I fight X" over "I've got +6 AC vs Giants can I fight a giant?". I think there shouldn't be a risk of perma/maiming (except for items that say such) because that's a major turn off to most people, but instead there should be curses, like Arthur East getting sealed in that armour, something that gives you something work through AFTER the arena's over, and earns you some infamy.



  • @people said in Thayan Arena:

    Thayan arena feels like a club, where those who are not mechanically inclined go to watch a fight, with no story impact, which rewards the potion guzzling spell huffing winner with OP gear.

    You wouldn't feel that way if you had a record of winning said "OP gear". I have and its fun. Its a nice way to get things without spending weeks of plotting/RPing.



  • @khamal said in Thayan Arena:

    @people said in Thayan Arena:

    Thayan arena feels like a club, where those who are not mechanically inclined go to watch a fight, with no story impact, which rewards the potion guzzling spell huffing winner with OP gear.

    You wouldn't feel that way if you had a record of winning said "OP gear". I have and its fun. Its a nice way to get things without spending weeks of plotting/RPing.

    Doesn’t that go against the idea of an RP server..?



  • I think Thayan Arena should be Fun First- I don't think there should be a risk as high as something that could be PC ruining. Cursed gear is a great way to go- Not only does it punish them for putting on a bad show AND losing, but it gives them something to go after, even if its just a shopping list of things you need to get rid of the -6 Charisma +1 AC Plate.

    And really, I do think it is fun already- Participating can be fun, depending, and watching is always a laugh for me. But, at no point do I think it should be changed to punish those who fail... Because then you're just reinforcing the "mechanics win" side of it - Let it be a show. They don't just have to win the fight, they need to draw in crowds for the Thayans.



  • @mrpenguin-phil said in Thayan Arena:

    Let it be a show. They don't just have to win the fight, they need to draw in crowds for the Thayans.

    Absolutely this. You should be able to get a reward EVEN if you lose. As long as your fight was entertaining, the fight is 'won', and you should get something, even if its not the item you asked for.



  • Help me understand this.

    For YEARS, like 15, CoA has had arena fights where players risk death to win rewards.

    We've also had, for like 15 years, quests where players risk death to win rewards.

    What exactly is the issue? Are the rewards just too good? Is it that you somehow aren't risking death and XP loss in the fights?

    Are the fights not scaling to level/ability of the players like they use to when we ran the Tired Traveler and Adventurer Hall arenas? IE: I always scaled the challenge to the CR of the player, based on how good the reward was going to be.

    What I'm hearing just isn't making much sense to me.



  • Sometimes the fights feel artificially scaled, heal-pot saves or sometimes just scaling something beyond the mechanics of a player - I'm not faulting Spiffy here, fuck me I couldn't do better PvP'ing for hours at a time, but not everyone can beat the boss, and many feel its a case of rich get richer, adding alternate ways to win, or alternate hooks to losing seems more interactive and fun other than "lol 40% deduction of current exp thank you".



  • @mr-moloch said in Thayan Arena:

    Help me understand this.

    For YEARS, like 15, CoA has had arena fights where players risk death to win rewards.

    We've also had, for like 15 years, quests where players risk death to win rewards.

    What exactly is the issue? Are the rewards just too good? Is it that you somehow aren't risking death and XP loss in the fights?

    Are the fights not scaling to level/ability of the players like they use to when we ran the Tired Traveler and Adventurer Hall arenas? IE: I always scaled the challenge to the CR of the player, based on how good the reward was going to be.

    What I'm hearing just isn't making much sense to me.

    For me it’s there is no storytelling and if you are a powerfully built destruction machine you get given awesome loot for clicking on a bad guy and drinking some potions.



  • If I had designed the Thayan arena, I would have set it up so that the DM team highlighted characters which were doing awesome stuff before each arena event, and then lined up specific loot items they could get (If they defeated the challenge.)

    Then had a set of "Still nice but not uber" items anyone can get by just defeating the challenge.

    Each character would be shown which items are available as a reward for this specific fight.

    This way the story telling element still exists in terms of rewarding the kinds of things CoA is about. While mechanics focussed playstyles can still win cool items from a cool fighting event.



  • @vagabond3103 said in Thayan Arena:

    Sometimes the fights feel artificially scaled, heal-pot saves or sometimes just scaling something beyond the mechanics of a player - I'm not faulting Spiffy here, fuck me I couldn't do better PvP'ing for hours at a time, but not everyone can beat the boss, and many feel its a case of rich get richer, adding alternate ways to win, or alternate hooks to losing seems more interactive and fun other than "lol 40% deduction of current exp thank you".

    So its a sense of "you have to keep up with the Jonses, but the odds are unpredictable and stacked in favor of the 'haves' rather 'fair'?

    Is that the heart of the problem?


  • Storyteller [DM]

    I think we could alleviate some of the risk concern if it was upfront what you were risking when you fought and if it’s were flavorful compared to what you were fighting for.

    For example, you are fighting for a large pot of gold and you lose, you lose all of your gold and got into debt with the thayans (you might randomly get attacked by thayan debt collectors when the DM feels like it until you pay off)

    Maybe you fight for the plate of manliness, and if you lose, you get cursed to be a woman and you receive the stat losses equal to the stat gains of th armor.

    If death and/or maiming are on the table, the announcer should say so and give people the chance to back out.

    Finally I think maybe it should be more of a story, like for example to compete you have to sign a waiver stating you can be called upon to be a gladiator in at least one future fight by the thayans or Maybe have it ladder style where you have to face increasing challenges until you get to the “champion” who holds the item oh desire.



  • @mr-moloch I agree with that assessment.

    @Khamal if I were winning, I guess I'd be one of the aforementioned spell monsters who's got gud. I also didn't say people weren't having fun.I just have my own observation.



  • I rarely entered the arena in all those years. Usually I just watched. I watched fights I knew I could never win, because I did not understand the mechanics. Even today, I am trying to learn the mechanics, but I know I can't win in there, my builds are never strong enough. My fault for picking RP and background over power. Sure, we can go as a group. But its not that easy to get a group. Usually those you could ask are already going in for themselves, or already helping someone else. And you can only fight once.

    The arena is fun for people who got the guts to get in, win or lose. Me, I'm just too scared of having my character ruined, even though I wish I could fight too and get that awesome loot. I just don't have the skills for it and its how it is. If I want loot like that, I have to push plots and RP. Takes longer, and sometimes it doesn't work. Like the arena, in a way. You win some, you lose some.

    The tier thing is interesting. You get a better idea if you can make it or not. I know I'll never get top tier gear, but maybe I can manage the lower ones.
    Means to be able to RP more would be nice. When you are trying to survive in there, you don't really have the time to type anything to make it entertaining...



  • @mr-moloch said in Thayan Arena:

    @vagabond3103 said in Thayan Arena:

    Sometimes the fights feel artificially scaled, heal-pot saves or sometimes just scaling something beyond the mechanics of a player - I'm not faulting Spiffy here, fuck me I couldn't do better PvP'ing for hours at a time, but not everyone can beat the boss, and many feel its a case of rich get richer, adding alternate ways to win, or alternate hooks to losing seems more interactive and fun other than "lol 40% deduction of current exp thank you".

    So its a sense of "you have to keep up with the Jonses, but the odds are unpredictable and stacked in favor of the 'haves' rather 'fair'?

    Is that the heart of the problem?

    I will say I've been involved in two arenas so far. Both times I died in a matter of seconds which is not an exaggeration. I've also seen some amazingly entertaining fights (Ib and Merrick vs the goblins for example) and I've also seen ones that were just "spam heal and stone skin pots until I win".

    That said I really enjoy the arenas and find them fun to watch even if I'm not mechanically strong enough myself to win. I would be sad to see them go away. It does seem to favor strong builds and big groups though.