When Bad Things Happen
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@Vladimir:
I have no real,problems with PvP, with a few caveats.
Have a reason. Nothing sucks more than being randomly attacked by someone you don't know, and who would have no real reason to attack your character.
Except…
Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, set people to hostile if you intend to PvP them.
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I disagree strongly. Set EVERYONE hostile if you are doing something illegal. For example, you are spying on someone. You are shadowing someone in stealth. You are out mugging. You are a paladin walking around in some place filled with criminal PCs.
I also extremely disagree with this notion that you can have "roleplay only" PVP.
PVP is roleplay. Full Death is roleplay. Subdual is roleplay. Losing in PVP is roleplay. Dying permanently in PVP is roleplay. Nobody likes losing or losing his character. But it's part of the bigger story. Maybe your character's role was merely to be a stepping stone on the next big bad's ascent.
Don't give me this "come up with more fun things than FD". Yes, of course you should try to avoid FD. But there are situations where it simply can not be helped and is extremely appropriate. Nothing would be more insulting to me as a player if someone who has a 100% good reason to kill me would just send me away. AGAIN. "As an example."
No. Kill me. Kill me for good. This is the best way to take all the tension, excitement and terror out of fighting. There has to be the risk of dying. A paladin is worthless if his quest against evil is not tied to the very real risk of permanent death. Where is the point?
If you can not die, you can not live. A game you can't lose is fun for nobody, and especially not for me.
Actually, I have to ask: Where is the point in coming up with a character, with goals, with a backstory if you do not accept the risk of death? How is the conflict going to be meaningful if there is nothing at stake? There needs to be danger, it is the spice of life. If you engage in mutual non-lethal conflict that for every IC reason should be lethal I do not think of that as courtesy but as the opposite- you are depraving players like me of all the tension, of all the escapism that a game like this is supposed to offer.
How can I believe in a character who is left alive time after time when the characters he fights ought to have killed him long ago? Stories have to end or they are boring and too long. Most TV shows get terrible after too many seasons. It's the same with conflicts and characters. They need to end and die!
Be more creative - if you're one of those in a position where you've another character at your mercy then you're helping outline the future of PvP on CoA; if you're remorseless about it or kill the character and then say "thanks for the fun, bai" then that person will be working by that standard for the future where it's a case of who's mechanically stronger beating up the other, making a speech and then killing them.
This is not how PVP works! If your character messed with someone who made it very clear that he would be killed if he keeps interfering, and he chose to roll the dice, then that is the end of his story. The responsibility lies with the dead guy: why did you persist fighting someone you can't beat? Why did you not surround yourself with friends? Why did you get involved with dangerous people, who made it very clear that you are dancing with death?
Why must we play this game with kids gloves? Opinions like these, bit by bit, take the edge out of the blade of CoA. And an edge it used to have, in times of Pree! Danger and death loomed then. Now I have no more fear of ever dying because chances are my enemy is just going to be "OOC courteous". You can be courteous without being patronizing. You can be nice OOC, you can be fair in when you FD, you can be generous in your conflict and avoid taking the path of full death. But when you do so at the peril of telling an interesting story, then I just can't agree with this sort of sentiment.
Edit:
You can be ruthless and dangerous as a PC without lacking in courtesy OOC. But all I am calling for is that when a situation warrants death, death should be forthcoming. And how do you deal with dying? Well, most of us take to heavy drinking. Going outside also helps. Just do something else for a while. When you come back to the game a few days later you'll feel fine and excited about your new concept. Death is not the end, it is a new beginning. Your old character was growing stale anyway.
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Why are you disagreeing with me?
I'm saying don't attack someone if you have not set them to hostile.
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When you get as old as I am your reading comprehension will suffer too!
(25) -
For those who don't want a PvP death or have high expectations for the death part of the conflict:
Stop and think when you find exit points from conflict that might result in PvP death. It's not unheard of to RP fear in the face of threats.
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What annoys me to no tomorrow… Is when you piss someone off, and take a beating, you dont catch the hint. The way I see it, everyone usually deserve a second chance. So, if I beat you down, tell you next time you interfere will be the last time, and you go about doing just that... Then you have earned FD.
If I do it. Then I expect to be mass slaughtered. If you are in a faction, but shy away from conflict... Then you should either "submit", or flee in terror.
If I dont want conflict, then when the Mage Tower comes storming, and I dont get out of the way, then its my own fault.Also, for the record. If you plot against someone and they find out... Dont become all saddened when said person comes knocking and says "You naughty naughty boy".
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Agree with Jasede a lot.
There are certainly many times when no FD is beneficial though.
Taking someones leg and telling them if anything happens to character X it'll be rhier head coming off next, could/should have that character trying to stop any of the plans against character X even if he instigated them.
Course, you'd have to follow through on the threat.
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Don't plan a One Stage warning then FD. Sit down and think it through from an OOC point of view. Plan the stages, plan the threats, plan the concequences.
I think much of the problem with unhelpful PvP is caused by players getting surprised by PvP, or just charging into PvP without any thought or planning.
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Agree a little with everyone, really. One warning then FD is a little fast paced, but on the other side some instances call for fast paced action. I can't call myself a PvP veteran, because I've only been involved in it once or twice. I know I don't mind getting FD'd, if we have built up the tension. That may have taken months and a dozen encounters/messengers/beating on each others minions.
It may have taken once. Who knows?
One thing that will (IMHO) guarantee epic failure is to try and put a concrete set of rules/guidelines on "This is when you should FD and not before". If when you give someone a warning, you truly mean for it to be The Last Straw™, maybe send them a friendly OOC. "Hey, been a blast so far - great encounters but I wanted to let you know that this last IC warning really was the The Last Straw. Just didn't want you to be surprised by FD if it escalates anymore. Look forward to the fun"
Then they can pull out if they want. Or metagame you. Or OMFGRAGEQUIT or whatever. You didn't say "I'm coming to FD you" you told them that you -will- take it to that level IC'ly if the conflict continues. Then it's their choice and they've been warned. They react and you do what you do. Love and war at that point, aye?
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When you get as old as I am your reading comprehension will suffer too!
(25)I'm nearly twice your age (45) and my reading comprehension is just fine. :P
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Don't plan a One Stage warning then FD. Sit down and think it through from an OOC point of view. Plan the stages, plan the threats, plan the concequences.
This.
Killing a players character should be the last thing you do if you haven't built up the conflict and just go stay out followed by kill your not involving them your only pride gaming.By the same token if you have built up a conflict and when it comes time to "kill" your foes don't be shy kill them and feed there bodies to the pigs.To many "conflicts" are dragged out to long this is why it seems PvP and full death is under used or incorrectly used.
This isn't just a player failing it's a DM one also (no offense intended)but often a DM will rescue a character when really they took the risk and lost yet they deprive the winner who also took the risks of there victory…this happens far to often and the story grows stale and pointless.