Improved Disarm - 1/round Usage



  • So a personal gripe of mine is having Improved Disarm only usable once a round - I agree that the AB nerf needed to come in because people were spamming it and it became obnoxious, however the 1/round nerf makes it so that Imp KD (or just KD) is the much better feat to take.

    This is without adding the fact that the script blocking Improved Disarm's usage sometimes triggers when the feat isn't even used, like when you queue the action, it doesn't fire, but then being unable to actually USE the feat, denying the use for the round. Could we remove this 1/round stipulation considering its already balanced enough with the negative AB it gives?


  • Fellowship of the Guantlet

    +1..............



  • Improved disarm should be used exactly for that - disarming people. The AB bonus vs weapon size is stupid, but hardcoded. Given we won't ever have more than 3 APR unless you're a monk or ranger, I think it's not that bad of a nerf to limit it to once per round.

    You should not be taking this feat as an AB booster, which is what you're saying that you want to take it for.



  • No - I'm saying the nerfs to the AB are warranted. The AB HAS been nerfed. I'm saying I want to be able to actually use it to disarm people.



  • Imp disarm spam was only ever OVERPOWERED because it gave large weapons 0 ab penalty vs anything that wasn't a 2 hander and +4 ab vs small and +8 ab vs tiny.

    As is its currently underperforming for 2 feats and 14 int requirement.



  • The AB nerf is warranted and fair.

    Remove the 1 round inhibit.

    +1



  • This post is deleted!


  • http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Disarm

    Feat never gave an AB bonus to begin with, it gives a -6 penalty. Improved Disarm simply removed the penalty. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Improved_disarm

    So honestly, I'm still baffled why this was nerfed.



  • Attempting a disarm applies a -6 penalty to the character's attack roll, and the combatant with the larger weapon gains a +4 bonus per size category of difference.

    +4 ab is huge, even just going from a large to a medium weapon. If it was, say, +1 it might be more reasonable.



  • @crystalrl Yes, only, so what? Don't fight a guy with a Greatsword with a Dagger. I don't really see much problem here. Dagger to Greatsword gives -6 + 4 + 4 = +2 to hit. So basically, you got a better Weapon Focus feat that also required 13 INT (which probably came at the cost of -1 STR).

    Take the second Disarmed Feat and now its -4 + 4 +4 against a dude with a dagger, at the cost of probably -1 STR to build your INT to 13. Still seems alright to me.

    The match actually WORKS to show why this is fine.



  • YES, but that benefit has since been removed so that Improved Disarm is ALWAYS a flat -4, no matter the difference in weapon size.

    Take that discussion to a new thread - this is purely on the 1/round usage and saying that the AB nerf means that this one DOESN'T NEED TO EXIST.



  • The whole thing should just be returned to default. (No penalty at all, use as often as you like.)

    ID can give you an AB "bonus" of sorts when you use it against a dagger dude with your greatsword, so effectively, if you spam it, you can kill goblins and such faster. Big whoop.


  • Admin [DM]

    It made certain builds unviable and made certain weapons even more unviable than before.

    I agree the 1/round disarm can probably go tho.


  • Fellowship of the Guantlet

    No Moloch, improved disarm gave a massive ab bonus if you used a large weapon against a tiny one for example.

    You'd get up to +8 to your attack roll and if you were using the larger weapon than your enemy at all, worst case scenario you could spam it at no AB penalty.



  • Give all enemies Warmace, problem solved.


  • Fellowship of the Guantlet

    Vanilla Improved disarm:

    Greatsword vs greatsword = -4 to hit.
    Greatsword vs Longsword = 0 penalty to hit
    Greatsword vs Handaxe = +4 to hit
    Greatsword vs Dagger = +8 to hit.

    We even tested it with a char who had 20 ab and used it against a mob that uses a dagger.

    alt text



  • Add onto this the fact that creature weapons/unarmed are tiny weapons, and you can get people with constant +8 ab.


  • Fellowship of the Guantlet

    @crystalrl said in Improved Disarm - 1/round Usage:

    Add onto this the fact that creature weapons/unarmed are tiny weapons, and you can get people with constant +8 ab.

    Actually unarmed and creature weapons are always counted as the same size category as the weapon it is used against. An unarmed imp disarm attempt was always made at -4 regardless of weapon size and imp disarm against an unarmed opponent (while obviously being useless) was always treated as -4 to hit.



  • Odd. I always assumed it was tiny. My bad!



  • I still don't know why the once per round thing was implemented.

    It's quite possible, it's so that the scripting used to apply the AB "fix?" (nerf?) actually worked, without it bugging out, rather than because it was wanted.

    Having utilised the method employed for this fix with other things, I can understand why it may have had to be implemented that way.

    I'd rather have it default, than with a strange once per round thing though myself.