Looking for suggestions on how to make the server less dm reliant



  • So, before you guys start, let me expand on the title somewhat since its hard to explain what I mean with limited characters. I feel like the server as a whole is too dependent on DM's for players to have a sense of accomplishment, and I think in the history of Arabel that is relatively a new thing. My favorite memories as a player were during a time where I NEVER saw dms back in mid version three, and me and my little group were just pieces of a bigger puzzle. We didn't play to impress dms, we played to have fun in a world that was amazingly deep and to interact with other players, be that making new friends or enemies to oppose. DM stuff was going on around us, and that was cool, but it was just one part of the game not the end all be all. So, my question is, how do we get back to that?



  • I have played here for about 4 months? I have never tried to impress the DM team personally, mostly just doing as you say playing with my little group and having a good time.

    Its all about how you want to play the game, after playing for years and years some lads probably don't get a kick if they aren't blowing up the world.

    I can understand that.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



  • I don't get a kick out of playing the game unless I am doing something cool and crazy / blowing up the world, honestly.

    I play to impress everyone, player or DM! I get a massive kick out of getting a tell saying "hey that was cool / fun / I like your PC", likewise with recognition on the forums!

    Who DOESN'T like being told they are awesome and impressive?!

    To me that is fun!



  • I don't see it that way, CF. I have to say I think the server is running a lot on dmless stuff. Most of the plot progress is done without DMs around, adventure and intrigue. When something comes to DM table its probably because people need to take a next step on it. One thing that can make you feel that way however, is the fact that there are a lot more people around and they are playing more hours than before.

    DMs are mostly needed when:

    • Apped things are in order;
    • Events are needed to push plots further;
    • DM owned plots are being persued;
    • Enforcing the progress you made on a certain project, take Tilverton as an example;

    When it comes to PC faction-wise and personal plots that are already in the server, DMs are not needed and the server handles itself in terms of politics, PVP and so on.

    Still, as long as we need DMs to actually move the settings, DMs will be needed. Take Old Town as an example, you enter the area and receive: "In order to kill someone here, you need to have a DM around".

    So a few suggestions to make this even more DMless

    • Random Exploration Area System: this way people can keep exploring new places every now and then, looking for adventure and not necessarily spamming the very same areas/quests over and over;
    • More dungeons and DMless Plots: same reason above, Bowser did run some DMless plots, some of those were "run for the loot" types, which proved to be not a very useful choice, but there are others. Some that could even use the Random Boss Spawn system;
    • PCs be granted more power to act without DM need, faction leadership and stuff: More powers in the hand of PCs, means less DM intervention, only in extreme cases;
    • More crafting possibilities & CoA Sims: want to build a village, want to create a random lute out of a material, want to gather food. We give them. Moloch did something so simple that pretty much solved the issue with Bhaliir's hunting expeditions. He made animal carcasses spawn meat. Never again Bhaliir needed a DM to do that;

    Those are my cents!



  • Well, make the world amazingly deep again in that case. Add more layers, more secrets, more rare items like mythalite or adamantium for players to find. Just last week I did 4 trips to underdark and 3 trips to the Forests outside Arabel. From what I can tell everyone had a blast on these, and none of them required DM attention (although a third of them did get it in some form or another). We tried to mine the most dangerous places in Underdark for rare minerals, but all we found was iron!

    Some trips drained more resources than others but each time I kept a track of what people used and gave them enough compensation to cover the costs and then some. I'd say the average pay for each adventurer was around 800 in total. Sometimes they got much more, once everyone only got 300 each. Thankfully I have deep pockets or these sort of expeditions wouldn't even be possible. I also do a bunch of quests with players, but as a high level character those are just as resource draining as anything else.

    IMO, give amazing loot to people who involve and engage with other players, so that when they do quests that are meant as money-makers that they come out on the positive side in terms of resources spent.



  • Giving players more tools.

    Access to cages near the arena that make mobs neutral until they are removed, making it much easier to hold arena events.

    Expanding crafting and making it more accessible.

    Implementing better/easier systems in which players can obtain positions of power ingame. Such as Councilor, High Priest, Lionar, War Wizard, Lieutenant, or any number of other positions without having to jump through a million hoops.

    Expanding quality of life/RP additions to the server. Things like Storage, more or better magic bags, and spells that enhance RP such as Sending, Mending, Tiny Servant, Comprehend Languages, Create Food and Water, Dancing Lights, Goodberry, Hallow, Mirror Image, Speak with Animals, Suggestion, and whatever others I don't have on hand at the moment. Even if some of these spells don't REALLY do anything mechanically in the game, they are worthwhile inclusions if only for their RP potential.

    Make it easier to conflict with other PCs politically. This comes with making it easier to earn positions ingame that have real power, but mostly comes down to making it easier for factions to want the same thing. This can be a resource- For instance, expanding upon the uses for Mythalite to gain a faction certain perks and benefits would put everyone in conflict with each other to get as much as the material as possible. This isn't limited to Mythalite- In fact, it should be a resource everyone technically has access to ingame like Netherese Alloy, Verdicite, Dire Tiger Teeth, Rubicite, or whatever else you can think of (though I would personally like to see the potential to unearth Mythalite during mining increased substantially as well if its uses are expanded beyond just casting some spells.)

    These are just a few examples, but some of them require a fundamental shift in the way we do things from "Earn it all ingame" to "Deal with the consequences if you mess it up." I think that's more fun, personally, if we lighten the entry requirements for these things somewhat but definitely allow players to fail through their actions and fall from grace.





  • I suppose my question, to help me answer this post more adequately, would be: "What do DMs want to see to get 'Earn-in-Game' apps passed? May it be for a PrC, title, or item."

    One of my suggestions would be, and this would probably drive @SpiffyMeister crazy (sorry ahead of time), why not create a script where random mini events happen while you entered an area with a certain amount of people? For example, you go exploring with a party and all of a sudden a NPC comes running up to you with a script quest saying there are some Sharran cultists trying to kidnap him and wanting to sacrifice him. You go find the cultists somewhere in the area, kill the cultists, and the event completes upon a boss kill.

    This is reminiscent to the MMOs nowadays where there are persistent world events. I feel like this offers interesting strengths to app resumes. Not only will the DM see that the PC has done something cool, but the PC has made an effort to rally a certain number of people to do something.



  • we are currently in the process of beginning the conversation of what EIG means, but me personally I think Moloch summed up how I feel about it in another thread. That being said, I wouldn't expect some big announcement soon. We got a team of varying opinions (which is a good thing since it helps us cater to different play styles) and things take a bit to discuss.