Dragonborn



  • Hey, someone told me players hate the dragonborn subrace.

    Is that true? Why, what's up? Tell Uncle Moloch all about it.

    Is it the 'half-orc' appearance? We can switch it to use half-elves, can't use humans or it grants extra feats which is a pita for mod balance. I made it with half-orc because it is a dragonborn, it should be big and bulkier than a human. But someone said that was a problem they had.

    Is it that they're weaker than half-dragons? Cause, yeah! That was the point. Most applications will not meet the half-dragon standard, its a freakin OP subrace we keep around for the rare and amazing concept; dragonborn still lets you get your dragon on-but without the OP factor.

    Also, while I have your attention, MORE SUGGESTIONS! I have almost 0 idea what's going on anymore in COA; so I want to learn and bring some fun and cool things back. In return, go grab a mate and tell them to log in and play CoA some more. I promise good times for all.



  • Welcome back! Poke your head in IRC for the usual suggestions ๐Ÿ™‚

    Currently, it looks like the DMs are attempting to prepare as best as they can for EE. You might want to go through old scripts and mark up what you did to make Strife's life easier ๐Ÿ˜›

    There should probably be a discussion regarding half-elves, to make them more appealing - I'd recommend adding an extra skill point.



  • IRC is a cesspool. I prefer to avoid it. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Strife's life would be easier if ROCC went through his old scripts and marked up what he did. I am very thorough in my scripts; but most the mess predated me by a long shot. We have 15 year old scripts in COA that are a mess, sometimes I think it would be easier to hire a scripter and rebuild it all.



  • Yes, it would be simpler to do that, but not easier. The frankenstein's monster still functions, redoing the script libraries would need a total redo of all the scripts those libraries are attached to, possibly.

    That said, starting with a fresh mod would make future maintainability and extensibility much easier.

    For Dragonborn:

    From what I understand in the race write-up, Dragonborn are basically house-ruled saurials, and not the actual dragonborn of Abeir (or the actual dragonborn of Abeir displaced the saurials entirely in our canon) . In that respect, they are canon (apart from the name). That said, (personal preference) I never found saurials / dragonborn to be all that interesting compared to half-dragons. It's probably just the coolness factor (like even with identical stats to dragonborn, I'd pick half-dragon for the lore/history/coolness). Not to mention, being descended from a dragon ICly is a very different thing than being something that just looks like one. It's not just about appearances, I'd say. If I'm remembering right, even canon dragonborn of 4e aren't really descended from dragons, and don't really take on some of the behavioral traits of dragons, unlike half-dragons of any specific color.

    Not saying Dragonborn shouldn't be around, because having options doesn't hurt anyone, but it's not something I ever got into myself.

    Personally, if half-dragons are a problem due to mechanics, I'd replace them with draconic bloodlines (like a dragon version of a tiefling/aasimar) Keeping the whole dragon lineage, but with diluted stats.

    Same with Janni, really, I'd rather see Janjanni than real Janni. Just me, of course.



  • Well, adding Janjanni isn't hard. I don't mind adding subraces that are not too OP. We keep half-dragon around because its around, but very few apps 1/20 maybe, get approved.

    Dragonborn ARE basically a dragon bloodline, so bit confused there. They literally came from dragons at one point in their history! But so do kobolds....and sorcerers (sometimes).

    Thanks for the response, helps me understand.



  • Alright, I was under the impression that Dragonborn were basically saurials that were called Dragonborn (and slightly different appearances) It wasn't too clear on the writeup. Even in 4e, I think they basically hated and rebelled against dragons? (not a 100% sure there, it's been a while).

    If they are dragon descended, I can roll with it.

    Maybe we could house-rule those heads as optional? Some people like them, some prefer using regular heads (that I've heard). If they are already the dragon version of planetouched, I think that would remove most of my reservations.

    I think the write up could be made a bit clearer in that respect, also. Thanks for the clarifications.



  • shrug When I wrote them up, I just wrote up enough to make them "fit" the setting and stole some from canon sources to make it make sense. Saurials came from dinosaurs, it would make sense there is either a history or myth told by dragonborn about their ancestors.

    So nothing stops a player from deciding their dragonborn believes he's a scion of Tiamat or whoever if it'll make for an interesting character. DM team would decide the truth if it ever became important.



  • I've never been interested in half dragon stats myself. So my only interest in the race was for the flavor of being a dragon-man. Dragonborn was supposed to deliver on that so it got me excited, the issue ended up being their appearance and lore.

    The lore itself didn't bother me too much since an imaginative player can make something cool out of it anyway. But the appearance for the race was really what kills the sub-race for me.

    Nevermind the half-orc model being silly to look at. The dragon head helmet doesn't have a neck, which makes the whole thing funny to look at.

    If Dragonborn had the option of having wings, a tail and a normal head, I bet people would have been scrambling to play that subrace even if the stats on it were made to be worse than a generic human.



  • Head got fixed I heard.



  • Might be recent then, last dragonborn I saw was 2 and a half months ago. Had the same helmet.



  • I agree that dragonborn with the option of regular heads, wings and tails would definitely up the appeal a lot.

    It's all about looking cool in game, and that definitely entices people (atleast me) way more than any stat buffs do. No reason not to have all options. The helmet for people who want that, and regular heads for people who like that.



  • Moloch notice me!



  • @star-s-end said in Dragonborn:

    I agree that dragonborn with the option of regular heads, wings and tails would definitely up the appeal a lot.

    It's all about looking cool in game, and that definitely entices people (atleast me) way more than any stat buffs do. No reason not to have all options. The helmet for people who want that, and regular heads for people who like that.

    This would do it for me...



  • Personally I find the option to play that a bit too snowflakey, but that's a personal opinion.


  • Admin [DM]

    They are just, ugly.

    Removing their 'head' models and letting them use half-elf or human would up the appeal a lot. Give them a tail.



  • Hm i personally like the head it would make me feel more like a dragon..



  • For me the real source of uninterest is the random bonus stat. CON is just so very much inferior to STR, I'd feel cheated on day 1 if it was randomly determined and I got CON. It's just an awful idea. (sorry to say that)

    Also, I prefer things that are somehow related to humans, as I am, well, a human being. I can approach them somehow. Harder to approach dragonborn than half-dragons.



  • @star-s-end Wait, so you say 'regular head' you mean a dragonborn without a dragon head provided via a hak? SO it can have a normal human like head?



  • @aronff said in Dragonborn:

    For me the real source of uninterest is the random bonus stat. CON is just so very much inferior to STR, I'd feel cheated on day 1 if it was randomly determined and I got CON. It's just an awful idea. (sorry to say that)

    Also, I prefer things that are somehow related to humans, as I am, well, a human being. I can approach them somehow. Harder to approach dragonborn than half-dragons.

    The random CON or STR is that big a deal? I'd be in favor of making the CON bonus bigger since +2 CON isn't as impressive as +2 STR; you are right there.


  • Builder's Guild

    I personally think the half-orc model combined with the dragon head looks awesome.

    Adding more dragon-y stats is going to make them appeal more, but I enjoy that the app isn't hard to pass. Adding lots of stats will ruin that.