Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat



  • I have seen multiple players do this recently, some maybe unknowingly, but some definite veterans. It's blatant cheating and I don't like seeing it so I'm just going to start having to tell DMs what players keep doing it. I'm pretty sure this type of offense can get your character deleted or your vault wiped.

    I don't like being that guy but I also hate seeing people blatantly break the rules on quests and otherwise.



  • Well, we do ask people to report exploiters, so we can make them aware they are breaking the rules, and all that.



  • I was definitely one of those people. (My bad)

    For those who didn't know this was a thing and why, I did some forum research after my Dobby scolding and it is because when you specifically use S to walk backwards it doesn't allow enemies to attack you even for their normal attack (not AOO).

    When I asked why IG no one really knew /why/ (some thought it was about keeping flanking bonus and some thought it made you invulnerable) it was an exploit but they all knew it was a /really/ bad one.

    Just for clarification Shift walking and using any other WAD or arrow key walking is good right?

    Also in some of the posts they only mention using S walk for a fairly long distance (30 or 40 feet) while others say doing it anywhere near combat is a no no. Should we just avoid it altogether to be safe?

    Post talking about it:
    https://nodebb.cityofarabel.com/topic/164/walk-exploit/11



  • It's basically just walking backwards, because it messes with the monster AI. You can safely disengage an enemy however by simply going into search mode at the start of your turn, and then clicking away or moving in a direction that isn't backwards. This might take a little practice to time correctly. Careful though, some monsters are clingier than others. 😛



  • It's just the S key, the other keys don't have the same effect IIRC.

    Basically, play it safe, just use the mouse when in combat except for hotkeys and it won't happen.

    Mr.Moloch did explain how this works a few years back in one of the announcement posts (I don't know if it's still there)

    Basically, if you are flanking, IE a monster is focused on someone else, you can use the S key to disengage without provoking an AoO (since you are literally behind the thing, it can't just get a free attack on you because you disengaged, which it would if you ran away). This was deliberately built into the engine as a feature to allow disengagements.

    The unintended consequence of this, however, was that the S key allows you to disengage even when a monster is focused on you, which means you can cancel it's targeting. It is definitely an exploit in this case.



  • @king-dobby said in Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat:

    I have seen multiple players do this recently, some maybe unknowingly, but some definite veterans. It's blatant cheating and I don't like seeing it so I'm just going to start having to tell DMs what players keep doing it. I'm pretty sure this type of offense can get your character deleted or your vault wiped.

    I don't like being that guy but I also hate seeing people blatantly break the rules on quests and otherwise.

    I think a gentle reminder would be good. It's good that you've posted it because I didn't even know about this.

    I also notice some people walking out of combat and walking in to combat, would that be considered exploiting as well? It's basically simulating the same effect of bypassing the Attack of Opportunity.



  • @swifty-willownall said in Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat:

    It's basically just walking backwards, because it messes with the monster AI. You can safely disengage an enemy however by simply going into search mode at the start of your turn, and then clicking away or moving in a direction that isn't backwards. This might take a little practice to time correctly. Careful though, some monsters are clingier than others. 😛

    This is also exploitive.

    If you need to disengage combat click away or run away. Don't S key or otherwise walk away.

    S key denies an attack of opportunity.
    It also bugs out people trying to chase you to attack sometimes.

    Waking away with detect mode or shift click just denies attack of opportunity.

    If you want to avoid attacks of opportunity then take Tumble, Spring Attack or something.



  • Isn't walking away with shift supposed to represent the 5 foot step, which is totally legit in DnD?



  • You can also walk through combat without triggering attacks of opportunity. The five foot rule was a single distinct action in pnp used to escape combat, where in nwn walking deliberately in combat can be used to avoid attacks of opportunity indefinitely. It also doesn't stop you taking other actions like casting s spell or using an item in the round as PnP five foot rule does.

    Ie five foot rule is not a mechanic in nwn, walking to avoid attacks of opportunity is (and one of those things that will readily fool AI but you'd never see used in PvP because it's not actually a legitimate way to escape combat. Going invisible is probably the most popular PvP escape for good reason)



  • I sort of remember you are allowed to use it for like 1-2 meters, then you have to stop using it. As in, you can't walk backwards for a stupid more than you could in real life in battle.


  • Admin [DM]

    No backward walking near combat, ever.



  • So what I'm getting from all of this is, "No walking in combat if your intention is to deny an attack of opportunity from your opponent."

    Would that be correct? (Does not want to be breaking any rules)


  • Admin [DM]

    Never use backward near combat ever, cause even if you arent even being faced by the monster. If the AI suddenly decide to attack you whilst walking backwards it cant. Hence why we advice everyone to use mouse clicking in/near/watching combat only



  • @puffy said in Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat:

    Never use backward near combat ever, cause even if you arent even being faced by the monster. If the AI suddenly decide to attack you whilst walking backwards it cant. Hence why we advice everyone to use mouse clicking in/near/watching combat only

    Yes, but I mean shift clicking out of combat or hitting detect/sneak mode to move away from an enemy to avoid the attack of opportunity.



  • Just S is banned



  • @thune said in Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat:

    Just S is banned

    Okay. Got it.



  • I think what this boils down to is not what is the case, but what should be.

    Should you be able to leave combat without an attack of opportunity by walking away? (not backwards walking but shift clicking)

    @DMs?



  • The problem with trying to enforce walking away as being bad, even if it does take away aoo's, is that people will just start all being encumbered. Then what?

    As it stands now, S is an exploit because of the targeting thingie. Shift-walking away is fine. If a DM thinks this needs to be evaluated again then maybe something can be scripted to make aoo's hit even when walking, but that is the only solution I can think of to account for encumbered characters.



  • @captainfantastic said in Using "S" (Walk backwards) in combat:

    The problem with trying to enforce walking away as being bad, even if it does take away aoo's, is that people will just start all being encumbered. Then what?

    As it stands now, S is an exploit because of the targeting thingie. Shift-walking away is fine. If a DM thinks this needs to be evaluated again then maybe something can be scripted to make aoo's hit even when walking, but that is the only solution I can think of to account for encumbered characters.

    That was my thought too. I'm always encumbered unless I drink a strength potion.



  • Imho walking away is like the 5 foot step in dnd 3.5


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