Intrigue and Adventure VS CoA Sims



  • I'm curious where our player base stands.

    The DMs are highly focused on Intrigue and Adventure on this roleplaying server. We expect players are portraying adventurers in a fantasy world.

    By intrigue we mean:

    Cults worshiping angelic beings hoping to elevate them as a new divinity.
    Mercenary Guilds seeking to seize power in the city, whereupon they'll implement a theocratic dictatorship of Lurue.
    Elves plotting to unleash a virulant plague to destroy humans.

    By adventure we mean:

    Wizards capturing rare beasts for experiments.
    Priests of Talos roaming into the highest mountains to battle powerful and rare monsters–collecting trophies to prove their skill.
    Halflings hunting down the remnants of orc bands who attacked a tribe they were friendly with.

    What we see, to a growing extent is an emphasis on CoA Sims.

    By CoA Sims we mean:

    Dwarves wanting to make bricks to rebuild buildings.
    Cook outs and parties for drunk farmers.
    Refugee centers.
    Tree planting to make parks.

    I'm curious how players even expect CoA Sims to work? I doubt any DM wants to oversee people making bricks. None of us are looking to see another refugee center take hold.

    Now, I will point out for people who like CoA Sims kind of things. We are fine with people doing it if it ties into Adventure and Intrigue. Here's how I'd approach those things.

    I want to rebuild a ruined building.

    Let's say its a temple of my faith, to accomplish its rebuilding I go out on adventures seeking a lost relic of my faith, the tomb of a hero to my faith, or I hunt down rumors of some mighty monstrosity my faith would seek to destroy as a symbol of its power. Then--when people are in awe of my adventuring, I tell them to reward me or honor me by rebuilding my temple. I'd battle against through sermons, conversion, duels, and perhaps ultimately an impressive final show down against a priest of a rival faith I'd do the same to have my temple built even if it wasn't yet.

    I want to hold a Cook Out.

    I spend a few weeks hiring people to hunt and gather meet for me. I intrigue against the local druids who seek stop my hunting. I send adventurers to gather rare meat from manticores, tressym, and hook horrors. Then I have a cook out where I reward the best hunters.

    I want to build a park.

    I scour the country side with rangers and druids seeking out rare trees of a mystical tree. I combat monstrosities and delve into deep and dangerous places seeking out unique natural materials that would make my park interesting. I consider dedicating the park to a deity or hero (and refer to my ideas for rebuilding my temple for some more ideas to pursue). Then once I've made a major name for myself and found rare things, I offer my collection of plants and items to the making of a park.

    I REALLY want to build a refugee camp.

    I find out if there are actually refugees in Arabel. Is there a need for my charity? Oh, yeah, I guess there isn't. I give up--OR--if I really want to do this, I consider what makes my refugee camp intrigue worthy and adventure worthy. I consider making it a part of a temple to Bane, which insists anyone getting aid in the camp must serve and work for Bane's glory by training in weapons, joining my personal militia, working like slaves to help make the place mighty and useful--but I wouldn't even do this until I had made a name for myself as a mighty servant of Bane (see ideas for rebuilding a temple) because until then--why would anyone want to come accept my help?

    Ultimately though, if you want to bake bricks, have a BBQ, knock down a wall, pave a street, sweep out poor people's houses, or give someone a haircut--the DMs aren't really going to pay much attention. Anything you want to accomplish should involve Intrigue and Adventure.

    You may notice some of these ideas involve seeking lost relics, old tombs, or fighting rare monsters. Sure, these things require a DM's help; but not much help. Shoot us an e-mail, tell us your plan and ideas. Tell how how you'll involve other players in quests, adventures, and intrigues and how you plan to keep people involved in doing this even when DMs aren't online (often by looking creatively at quests--"Everyone, a man's gone missing in a cavern filled with slimes and oozes. I must rescue him!" and then leave out the fact you're collecting the slime and ooze to make a foul potion that will mutate the people in western Arabel into aboleths). In such a case, a DM would be happy to eventually let you find some rare relic you've sought for for years (although if it has any magic or powers-we'll decide), or we'll let you find a lost book that tells you the way to become a lich, or we'll let your mad cult gain the attention of a celestial being who wants to become a god.



  • I don't know what to say… I agree?

    Everyone needs a break though, I've had a couple of characters now who've been fairly heavy on opposing fronts of this and one of the main reasons I lost interest in playing them was because they were so polarised; it just got boring.



  • By intrigue we mean:

    Cults worshiping angelic beings hoping to elevate them as a new divinity.
    Mercenary Guilds seeking to seize power in the city.
    Elves plotting to unleash a virulant plague to destroy humans.

    Yes more is better this part of the server i find alot of fun.

    By adventure we mean:

    Wizards capturing rare beasts for experiments.
    Priests of Talos roaming into the highest mountains to battle powerful and rare monsters–collecting trophies to prove their skill.
    Halflings hunting down the remnants of orc bands who attacked a tribe they were friendly with.

    Great i love doing this stuff it's why i play the game.

    By CoA Sims we mean:

    Dwarves wanting to make bricks to rebuild buildings.
    Cook outs and parties for drunk farmers.
    Refugee centers.
    Tree planting to make parks.

    I personaly find boring if i wanted to plant a tree id dig a hole in my garden,D+D was never about this kind of thing NWN isn't about this kind of thing if i wanted to do things like this id play a different game.



  • Wow.

    When you lay it out like that, it gives a fresh and easier way to look at what you want to do.

    As a member of one of the groups that wanted to put together one of the refugee camps, now it seems rather silly. Yeah, it would be more in line with reality to set up a refugee camp for displaced people, and yeah, as a chruch of protection, one would want to do that, but really, go join Red Cross. There isn't enough game time and resources to devote to that sorta thing.

    NWN and Dungeons & Dragons are about the adventure…about the Dungeons and the DRAGONS.

    Arabel is about the adventure, with the extra spice of the intrigue thrown in there to make it stand out from "escape from the underdark" or any of the other servers.



  • Great post Moloch…But I'd love these guys to build a refugee center. All those poor suffering humans in one room...disease and weakness everywhere...mmm mmm mmm ripe cattle...

    Seriously though, I think everyone needs to look at their ideas in ways that it will be good for your side, but also give others a chance to oppose it. Planting trees and building bricks and shit is not fun. I'd rather go with the idea of burning trees and throwing bricks instead.

    The best ideas come out of the box and has subtle effects that may even effect server-wide. That refuge center only helps NPC's and they aren't the player base, but I would love to see it built to only have it burned down a week later by PC's. Yay!



  • Total agreement with B-Rock here.

    Some PCs want to plant a garden? Cool let them do it. Then the druids can take them out for daring to try and control nature.

    Want to make a refugee camp? Cool, group all of those unfortunate NPCs together, my great cleave needs some polishing.

    Want to make cookouts for drunk farmers? Awesome. Poison the food and wine. Loot the livestock.

    Isn't COA Sims fun?

    I suppose the main thing for me is that if you find playing CoA Sims fun, that is totaly cool. But what is it going to do for the players? I seriously doubt the NPCs care quite as much as us.

    I have no problem with someone making bricks if it is going to eventually build a new structure that will be totaly awesome for the PCs and not just another bar that no one is going to use anyway.



  • I think that the DMs foster a community of CoA Sims because players often feel powerless to do great adventures. There is one tool for great adventures outside of scripted quests: the application. I think that the DM base might want to figure out how to script more spontaneous adventures and have more curious things to do – or have more DMs to interact wtih the PCs.

    To be clear, the DMs are certainly interacting at full capacity with intrigue and adventure. But they are also missing 85%+ of the player base at any given moment (at least).

    Games, however, often have a leader in order to foster player interaction. And the leader right now (as far as I can tell -- I'm not on a ton right now) is scripted quests and not DMs.

    I don't think most people have as great of an enjoyment out of CoA Sims, but they do the Simming in order to wait for an adventure to come along. Or they Sim while they wait for their app to be approved or moved on.

    Perhaps some quested scripts could lead people more in the direction you're aiming for. Perhaps an NPC could spawn near a PC at a random interval and give a quest like:

    "Kill xyz NPC and assemble a team to do it" and then spawn that NPC elsewhere (evil assassin plot for assissin classes)

    "Put together a team and find xyz relic at a lost location. Go to the library and look it up." (PC goes to the library, asks about the relic which opens up a secret portal somewhere out in the Anouroch. The location is mentioned in the library) (plot given to those with lore over 10)

    My 2 cents, anyway



  • I think that with the cormyrian supporters being evicted from the city and Bhaliir being sent down below, you are bound to have a lull in PC vs PC conflict. After two months of having to pick a side more or less, people are probably striving for a bit of togetherness. That's not necessarily a bad thing, at least from my perspective, because it allows new rivalries to slowly build. There's going to be a lot of new characters that were just made or are about to be made as well, so I suspect the lull won't last long.

    My suggestion would be for all of you (the DM team) to put the major ground shaking plots to the side for the moment, and run a few one or two or three event plot lines. The reason I suggest this, is two fold-it allows the new characters/old characters with new positions to grow before the next major side picking event, and as they always do, short plots will help introduce you to players who want to get involved but don't know quite how and don't have the relationship with the dms yet to get going on their own.

    As for making people more adventurous…well, everything I suggested in the past, better loot, better rewards/exp for quests, player actions making an impact on the server, ect. has all come to pass...If that hasn't worked, I guess there is just a large part of the CoA population that hasn't learned how to get rid of their inner girly man yet.



  • I /hate/ CoA Sims and there ain't nothing more boring.



  • This is why questing is important (not just scripted)

    D&D in general is about getting power, slaying fearsome monsters, finding treasure, overthrowing a evil Tyrant, and other such things.

    I think the problem is comming too many are focusing on "Social" RP rather then adventuring RP, as in not willing to actually go adventuring.

    Perhaps on a scripted quest there could be a random NPC that pops up to give an alternative? Also sad to say it but it seems certain people will only do big RP plots that effect the server with people they personally know, much like a clique.



  • I'd like to point out the elves are not planning on posioning the citizens of Arabel . . .yet.



  • I don't know how to say this without it sounding like a complaint… because I realize it simply has to do with timing.....
    but for some of us who play at DM-sparse times... it's almost not worth bothering getting involved in intrigue that has to do with DMs because the events almost always take place at off-hours.

    One follows hooks, tries to get involved wth things going on, only to find that you missed anything that actually happens, and all you get to do is plot beforehand or talk afterwards. Nothing actually happens when you are around.
    Even on a rare occasion when you play at what is your off-hours, and you might receive a plot hook... that you involve others in... you only find a few days later that actual events have always happened 4 hours before you log in.

    It basiclly gets one dis-interested in seeking out plots, not because one doesn't want to...but as a means to avoid disappointment, again.
    Not quite "The Sims" by choice, but as a defence mechanism.

    There can still be intrigue and all, but it is rarer/limited, because it tends to be purely PC based, and there is a limit on how that involves others, as those who -do- manage to get involved in the larger swirl of events often just don't care about non-DM activities.

    Again, not a complaint, it's a function of when one chooses to play, but rather a pointing out that some people do what others might look at as "Sim like" because anything else is damn hard.



  • We are all adjusting to the Servers new reality wherein players can affect more changes than in past versions. Many players are wanting to make their mark upon COA.

    The problem is many do not know what the DM's are going to respond to, myself included. In my case i try to keep my long term plans open to adaptation. For the changing situations and suprises the server keeps throwing out.

    Because i don't have a clear picture of what you are looking for i will try several approaches, if they get no responces i try something different. In all my attemps i try to involve other players hoping something will "Catch".

    I chose to support the Cook Out when i seen it was being canceled. I do't really think it was intended to get NPC farmers drunk. It was an attempt to involve other players. Something that's not always easy to do.

    amirlach



  • I think there needs to be a good mix between both.. and there is no reason the two cant mix. The so-called COA sims can often be a start for intrigue and adventure. It's up to the players to make what hey can from it. DM help is always appreciated but not mandatory (thought it would be nice)

    As for specific, I'm trying to help a player organize the 'Cook Out' or.. Barbecue as it was put. We have been trying to make it more then just that. Trying to get other hunters involved. Some times some come along, other times not. Either way, it is never dull moment when we hunt as the wild land spawns can be brutal! (and I love that)
    Been dropping hints for the Druids to get involved. Hell, we have slaughtered about 100 animals in 3 RL days. Often we leave the hides out for the druids to find and say 'Hang on.. what is all this wast and death in my lands?'. Whether or not they have picked up on that, I don't know. Umm.. I never see the druids in the wilds.. mostly only see them in the city [shrugs] But, that is one place where DM's can help.. a post in the Druid forms.. or posses Nessa and grab a druid and say 'Whats going on with all these animals dying?' Thats something I cant do.
    Been trying to get others involved to help with the event. As far as I can see, the more people in one place Rping, the better it is for a DM to run something that can effect more then just a small party.. or single player. For instance, we were planing to invite the new Gypsies along to the feast. What better way for the DM's to get the players to notice them? Or, lunch and Ashby attack.. or a Black Bloods assault.. or have the Half Orc tribe crash the party. I don't know. I want people to get interested in East Way as I think that it is going to be important to a few plots soon enough. Ashby, Clar Banda (old but still interesting), Half-Orc Tribe and the newly arrived Gypsies and so on. The more players interested in the town the better in the long run, right?
    As far as I can see, an event that can be classed as COA sims can lead to much much more with a simple nudge.

    Any way, thats just my thoughts on one little thing that was mentioned. I don't know about making brick..err, some one might find that fun?… I mean this is a game that we play to enjoy in our own way is it not? I don't like going from scripted quest to scripted quest.. but some people do, and thats fine by me, if thats how they want to play the game. Just because you don't like something does not mean that other people -have- to feel the same way.



  • This
    @Djanga:

    I think there needs to be a good mix between both.. and there is no reason the two cant mix.

    and this
    @Djanga:

    I mean this is a game that we play to enjoy in our own way is it not? I don't like going from scripted quest to scripted quest.. but some people do, and thats fine by me, if thats how they want to play the game. Just because you don't like something does not mean that other people -have- to feel the same way.



  • This wasn't about scripted quests was it? Anyway, I play on CoA to adventure, not doing stuff that I do or can do in real life.



  • I find the sims usually as a hook to try and petition for DM attention, since people seem incredibly fixated on getting it. A lot of these things could simply be done on your own with other PCs, but most of the time it seems you find a lack of people interested in joining other's plots because they want to be the one 'in charge' and 'win' by getting said attention for their event.

    If you want to make a shelter, run it on your own. Find a place to set up, go hunt the food yourself, carry bedrolls, even find an empty building if you want to to host it in and put up your bulletins as to locale and times it is open (aka, when you're online with that character to host it).

    I agree with Moloch. Give it some more flavor than We want to do A with a DM to help us., especially if you're horrifically opposed to things not ending up the way you wanted for a 'win' no-one else really has effect on.

    If you do it right on your own, the DMs may become interested. They may not.

    But there's no need to be fixated on their presence to run a proper event/charity. It's just the downstream trickle of player fixation on DM involvement, people can't host things without a DM and have people interested most of the time.

    This is mostly the fault of the players hosting (often for not making it interesting enough or involving others even if you don't need to) and players receiving (for not being willing to put their hearts into it unless they get some special piece of DM loot or XP at the end).

    I can think back to things like the East Way defense (where it was all PCs when I was there lining their 'trench' with bullets and RPing it out with one another) or the Rat House (the letters outside and the rat herding were great, guys) fondly. Even if there was no DM flash and bang, I frankly find those events that are entirely done by the community more fulfilling.



  • @Lord:

    Isn't COA Sims fun?

    Not really, which is why Moloch made this thread. Think about it, if you were a DM for a day or could only get online to do a few hours of DMing once or twice a week (which is me at the moment, sadly) what would you rather do:

    Help a group of Hoarran Priests go and enact justice on a cruel mayor of some far away town who had barricaded himself in his huge mansion with all the gold that belonged to the towns people, laid out traps all over the place and used his dark wizarding powers to bring to life all his heirlooms and suits of armor he has stored away in his vaults to fight off the intrepid adventures..

    Or help someone build a brick wall.

    As has been said we don't mind as much if it's mixed in with a load of awesome and intrigue..but sadly 95% of the time it's not.



  • I thought CoA was a "political" server. Faction vs faction, PC's vs PC's. I'm surprised when Moloch says that it doesn't take much effort for a DM to set up an "adventure" for the players. I always thought you didn't have the time for that, or that you had to think of 5 small, smart events/plots of your own before you were "rewarded" with an "adventure". I've been focusing on PC vs PC when I've been setting my goals, trying to figure out the easiest and quickest way to start some conflict between two groups of people.



  • @Caek:

    Help a group of Hoarran Priests go and enact justice on a cruel mayor of some far away town who had barricaded himself in his huge mansion with all the gold that belonged to the towns people, laid out traps all over the place and used his dark wizarding powers to bring to life all his heirlooms and suits of armor he has stored away in his vaults to fight off the intrepid adventures..

    Fancy setting this up? I'd love to do this!

    To be honest, there are times when I'd like a DM to put a request out for a party of people to do a one off adventure like this, that may or may not be related to ongoing quests. The DM then schedules the Event and people can book in. The DM vets the players/characters to see if they fit the profile for the quest or maybe reject someone who has done a lot of these recently in favour of someone who has not.

    The quest is then run and completed. Some of these Events may run for two or three sessions but most would be one session long.

    These quests could be used by DMs to draw folks who are not embroiled in plots into said plots. I'm thinking of folks who are inexperienced RP'ers. It would also satisfy those who's playing schedules are not sufficiently secure to allow them to be drawn into intense plots as the event is formally scheduled and boxed and the players and DM can walk away at the end, satisfied with a completed mini plot.

    I'd see these as a way for peripheral players to be drawn in.


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