On PVP, a too-long-didn't-read

  • @Pandemonium:

    It's okay to win. We all like to win. [No one likes to lose. If you can help it, don't make it more unfun while winning.]
    It's okay to lose. You don't have to win every single time you quest or are faced with a challenge. Characters have weaknesses and we as the DMs like to see characters role played according to their stats, that pleases us. What aggravates us is the "Superman" complex, the playing of characters well outside the range of their stats, and the absolute lack of respect towards the intentions of the game.

    So let's go there ourselves.

    PVP RULES, Too long didn’t read version:

    1. Rules on Looting
    • Do not loot other people's dead bodies on script quests.

    • Do not full loot fallen PCs during DM events.

    • Full looting (otherwise) is acceptable, but shitty behavior.

    • Stop looting corpses you come across and have no business with srsly guys stop.

    1. Rules on PvP
    • Do not abuse transitions.

    • You need a legit reason to engage in PvP.

    • Do not PvP in front of blue named NPCs without a DM.

      • Unless you’re PPing in which case they can beat the shit out of you if they find out.

      • You’re a police person with police powers.

    • When you’re FD’d, be considerate of your killer. Stay dead for a while. You can be killed repeatedly.

    • Hostile prior to attacking.

    1. Guidelines for Fun PvP
    • PvP doesn’t have to end in PK. Don’t be a massive dick. FD is not your first option.

    • If you do PK, give the other player a chance to escape and they should be aware you’re going to kill them. Do not FD people who think you're probably on SD

      • Do not invisi-gank.

      • "Give suspicious glances, draw weapons and threaten them, don't simply leap out of invisibility to "win" a fight."

    • If you leave them near-death, it’s polite to make sure wandering monsters don’t finish them off.

    • PvP is mechanics. Understand mechanics. Realize mechanics are a thing. WYSIWYG. Do not complain about mechanics.

    In retrospect, this seems like a fairly simple set of rules. I have simplified them into a much smaller more easy to digest pill. It all boils down to; don't be a dick.

    Now, having said that, I feel like I need to flatly say that right now what we seem to need is a better understanding of the PvP rules, and some expectation management about what happens once those rules are carried out to their conclusion. I think you'll see, reading over the abbreviated pvp rules above, that pvp is - and can be - quite brutal. Moloch went into about a paragraph or so about what constituted 'justification' but in reality, most of the buildup towards PvP is courtesy extended by most people, because we are not dicks.

    More and more has been written on conflict and how to properly conflict, but to be honest with you, it's not necessary to understand that when you are facing down someone who is hostile to you and has their weapon drawn.

    These rules are here so that people can adequately manage their expectations.

    It's OKay to win, it's OKay to lose, but it's not OKay to be a dick to each other, to finger-point afterwards, or to rage quit, or to encourage others to quit. PvP should not be a surprise by this point. PvP is often the ending, or the beginning, or even the meat and potatoes of a lot of plots - and plots are discussed elsewhere - but guys, seriously. Just follow the rules and manage your expectations afterwards and remain positive, if you can, and then keep on keeping on.

  • slow clap quickly ascends into full blown applause

  • We need a DM to stick this in the PvP Topic on the resource forum.

  • I vote we Merge all 3 PVP Rules posts this one, the Players Corner one, and the Announcements one so we can have one source of non conflicting info.

  • mishandled and perceived mishandled PvP, the cause of way too many players leaving any server.

    it is why i now avoid PvP like the plague, i used to do a subtle hidden form of PvP which was pretty terrible because the results were pretty much the same (if someone upset my character(only one character of mine in v3 and v4 did this) in game, they would eventually pay..unless they became NPCs)

  • Builders Guild

    Remember that while pvp can always be upsetting no matter the outcome, PvP is especially upsetting when it stifles story telling rather than promotes it.

    You can tell a good story by fighting at relevant and fitting points in it either to raise tensions, raise the stakes or create a climax, but you can also end a good story early by fighting over irrelevant things, for pointless reasons or to prevent events from leading to a climax.

    Basically fighting is a narrative tool and any narrative tool can be used properly or improperly, always keep that in mind.
    It makes the difference between a movie about a policeman who gets in trouble….And an episode of Cops.

  • Seems reasonable to unify the rules.

    I'll have a go when back from holiday.

  • I am bumping this for visibility as I feel few players are respecting the 'talk shit, get hit' rule.

    Insulting a character is a legitimate reason for them to attack or potentially even kill another player. Particularly if the insult is of an extremely provocative nature.

    Your character is not invulnerable. Show player courtesy in both winning and losing pvp interactions. Or do not be surprised if your character meets a premature end.

    It is extremely frustrating to offer player courtesy, and have it thrown back in my face continually. I will continue to offer it regardless, but I will also make my opinion known.

    Consider roleplaying fear, or loss. It is surprising what depth of drama can be reached when a player is willing to show their character's weakness and not just strengths. Consider carefully if your character is capable of lying smoothly with a sword to their throat, or while in great duress. If you do not have high bluff skill, they probably can not!

    If a player is not capable of accepting loss or 'rolling with the punches' then they need to avoid provoking others. Simple as that.

  • Insulting a character is a legitimate reason for them to attack or potentially even kill another player. Particularly if the insult is of an extremely provocative nature.

    I will add to this, if you decide to go though with PVP and ends someones story due to name calling .. your actions may themselves come into question and have consequences to your character. Of course this is general statement and it is best to build conflict over a period of time.

    But I do like the original post and if not used should go in the new players hand book, if it hasn't already .. it is simple and to the point.

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