Month of CRAZY DM REWARD from CRAZY PC STUFF



  • This -is- a suggetion to the players and the DMs, and I did start it at the suggestion forums, but eventually moved it to the general discussions since I felt it fit better (DMs, feel free to move this if necessary!). Scroll down to the last phrase if you want to skip the rambling. If not, continue at your own risk.

    How many scripted quests did you do this week? And how many adventures or events like rituals or ceremonials did you organize or participate on, which did not involve a scripted quest? I bet you did more quests than events, and I wonder why- seeing as this is a roleplay server- shouldnt there be more events and adventures of our own?

    Dont get me wrong though- quests are an awesome invention. They are good, easy entertainment to do alongside new and old characters, and at the same time knowing you will get a pay for what you do. However, quest "trains" is the bad byproduct of a certain mentality currently forcing people to abusing quests only for the sake of gaining XP. This has taken the servers focus from encouraging the creative imagination that gives the server its own unique stories and adventures, to idealism where only through quest training you can gain reward of XP and loot. Why does this mentality even exists?

    Because the server suffers from a massive inflation of DM XP, and has been this way for years, 99,99% of the current XP in arabel comes from people questing, and it has lead to the point where people do not log in at bad hours since they feel there's nothing to do as there's not enough people to quest. But let me be clear- even at those hours, there are DMs out there like Strawman, or Zool that do keep logging and watching you- so why dont you try your luck and simply organize an adventure that fits your characters nature, and get that sweet ass DM XP instead? Your own adventures dont need a level, or a party cap. Just involve, and have fun, right?

    Sadly, adventuring isnt fun, when it doesn't actually reward you- Not like the scripted quests do! "It's rare that a DM watches you, and that in order to ensure you get that DMs attention, you need to set up dates to make such special events. And even if you get lucky and a DM shows up, its unlikely he's going to reward my efforts and hours spend as much as the quest next door would." This mentality that we THINK we KNOW a DM is not around to reward you UNLESS you set up times and dates is again driving us away from the huge chunks of XP and l00t that we SHOULD be gaining from using our imagination to creating adventures.

    This should not be, and it needs to change. The only way to do that is to PROOVE the current mentality WRONG. EVEN IF this means crazy XP is to be handed out for silly things. EVEN IF it means going out to do your own adventures and hoping a DM would be around to watch you do it. If more people get back to having fun involving people outside of questing, and people know they get huge XP/Other rewards out of this- it would simply open a new page of imagination in the servers history, and we would discover new driving forces out of people that have not done it before.
    Make it a trial month of CRAZY DM REWARD, make it a trial month of CRAZY ADVENTURES (with no promises of certain pay!)! Try and be AMAZED!



  • Alot of my adventures tend to end with disasters, yet they are in my opinion extremly fun. As with alot of exploration type adventures, getting to know other pcs and what motivates them. However the part of this I do hate is trying to get groups together to do it, the majority of the time few people want to get involved without proper reward, especially if its going to cost in loot or xp traveling to these dangerous areas.

    That being said I do enjoy questing aswell so long as there is a balance, to much of either then I tend to find I grow bored of a PC.

    I do think one of the problems these days is the server is so well travelled and known that the sense of true adventure is lost, this is why it falls on the pc's to forward their one personalities to add the "spice", and not just hope a DM is going to do it for them.

    I remember on a PC years ago when the ruins were first added, the sense of awesome of searching them and finding new and cool things while on another players PC's holy quest. It was both aspects that made the adventure awesome, sometimes there would be DM spice which only added to it all.

    So yeah, echoing what has been said above. Players can make so much awesome by just telling the stories of their pc. These stories are in my eyes so much more than shiney loot or xp.



  • Haha, I remember my rl mate saying the same when I started playing nwn/coa. "I just got 50 xp from npcs watching my pc in the inn, should've been 500!".
    But then here's the fun thing about that statement.. It's not that he got 50 xp that bugs me. What bugs me is that the dm spent time on something like that as to have npcs stare at a pc for no real reason.. The question is simple. The DM had little to do as none were out on an event or anything. Why's that? It'd due to events costing a lot and then comes all the dangers of dieing, which dms can change but they never have. And that incident with the 50 xp is just one among many where dms do stuff to have time pass since there's nothing rly fun happening.

    What I'd like to see:

    • Bigger rewards for those who hold events, make it 500 xp and gp instead of 100 xp. With bigger rewards ppl will start doing the events again.. The adventure even. Now you can hardly get anyone on a real adventure contra a quest since everyone knows it's not worth it. Nothing more annoying then wandering some open dungeon like haunted halls etc. where you need a specific class but don't have one and know you just wasted 500 gp and 1 hour of your life to boredom.. So here comes the second..
    • NPCS: Have npcs who the pcs can trade, buy or talk with for something matching the dungeon's theme. Then even if there were no dm on there could still be something for it. Even crafting reagents out/in there. ( I know there exists a little bit but it's not enough.)


  • Some of the problems with having LOADS OF GOLD AND LOOT out in these 'exploration zones' comes from having sat there and watch ten players, each solo an area, then go on a quest with each other some time afterwards. Instead of actually teaming up and exploring. OR watching some guy invis all the way through an area and ninja looting all the chests.

    Also, adding in NPC shops in these zones, simply invites yet more solo invissing all the way through, once someone has run all the 'easy' quests to save up exactly the right amount of gold to buy the super item from the shop half across the map that character has never been anywhere near.

    Now, of course, this is only some players, and I always advocate not putting limits on things to stop exploiters, greifers, to the detriment of people creating cool stuff, better to create the cool stuff, and just slap the exploit/cheat/griefers than do that.

    But, we cant just slap tonnes of gold and loot out in these places, because people will just solo the crap out of them. I made the crafting system with built in methods of trying to inhibit/discourage soloing, but…. people still do it. Sure, I know there are low player times zones, it is -fairly- rare you are actually alone though.

    We have been looking at some more randomisation systems for dungeons, which would make them more like quests in the way of reward, as it would much more difficult to use these techniques of gaining silly amounts of loot/xp/gp through questionable means. But it's not a simple system to make.

    Also, I give 500 and more XP to people who run events. I gave 500 XP to someone today for doing something 'minor' but really really cool actually.



  • There might be a simple system that could be made pretty quickly though, to ensure you get an 'end reward' when visiting such exploration areas, which might not be a bad idea. We do want exploring to be worth it, we just dont want it to make it insanely easy to gain 5 bajillion gold and full +76 gear.


  • Storyteller [DM]

    I am on board with helping out.

    Go out and do cool stuff, ping the DM channel and even IRC before you go!



  • I know this crazyness can be an individual decision of support from the DMs. It doesnt necessary need to be one though. If the DMs made it public that they support this trial as a team and will all commit to its crazyness, it would send a clear message to us players that this is what to do.

    Let me now be more clear on what I mean by all this crazy talk. For players, I am talking about focus on achieving character dreams (yes, I know everyone has those, be they from riding a unicorn to burning pirate babies) through involving and being involved with people in a fun and encouraging manner. This means answering those event sendings even when your gut tells you it wouldnt be "worth it", or making those sendings for your own events- while having a spectacular fun in roleplaying your characters and exploring your imagination to spicing everything up.

    Why? Because this month if and when the DMs see you doing this shit (and they WILL), they will mount you up with that god damn unicorn to kill all the pirate babies in the world. So make those plot forum posts, keep DMs updated, and use your imagination to accomplish fun!

    For DMs, I am not asking for toolsetting, scripting or anything of the sort. I am demanding the spread of crazy DM love. Let people know you see them when they do this shit, let them know this is what you want them to be doing. It doesnt need to be the perfect example of the best roleplaying that has ever crossed your eyes. If you see people plotting or already doing their own events, make them know you -seriously- approve. Drop them that 500 for EACH imaginative fun move they make. And don't be scared if it turns into giving 2500 XP in the end to some level 4 guy, who managed to talk himself out of getting arrested after associating with infernalists, or 3000 XP to this level 5 dudesauce that just casted lightning bolts on this crowd of PCs he gathered to hear out and sacrifice to appease the stormlord- and dont forget the crowd, especially if they contribute in their own imaginative ways, perhaps as supporters or by posing other actions to challenge the stormlords true might? Throw a thousand XP at their way too.

    It doesnt have to be XP alone. It can be gold, plotlines, and so and so on! Just make it worth for the prayers to make the awesome happen even if it's modest- just aslong as they roleplay to involve and have fun with others.

    One trial month of this. Can we do it? Yes. Should we do it? Hell yes.



  • in the last 2 days I've granted about 8500XP to people doing something slightly less routine than a quest.



  • Plus loot, and two plot hooks.



  • But what if people don't like you and won't go adventuring/exploring with you….

    It's a sad, lonely life....


  • Storyteller [DM]

    We don't really need to make any endorsement because this is what we want people to do anyway and already reward. If people want to pick this month to really make an effort to do more cool stuff, then I am happy to make the effort to dump more xp and custom loot on you.

    I like the energy and enthusiasm!



  • Can't you make the "open dungeons" like quests? Make some few areas soloable but if you want the awesome stuff you'll need a party to enter further into the dungeon or just to enter in the first place. Then I doubt there'll be much problem. And make it much harder to solo too. We already got "loot.rubble" in open areas which you can solo easily.



  • Well one of the things We'll probably be doing is making much more of the loot actually drop from the monsters, instead of being in chests you can just invis up to.

    See, I dont mind players stealthing around on their own, and scouting regions out, I just dont like it when they abuse the system.

    I dont want to limit people from being able to say, go into an area thats highly dangerous, alone, and leave 'journal fragments' or their undead creations with notes and items in their inventories, so they can set up a little event.



  • HOW I SEE THIS SITUATION

    1- I make more scripted quests than explorations. I believe the rate is 3:1. Scripted quests for me is like events without a DM, you can RP, you can have some fun, you can make some gold and xp to use in DM events (usually we lost all the xp, supplies and everything in the events- lol - I´m joking) and explorations.

    2 - The interaction with DMs nowadays is very often while doing an exploration. I would say that at least 50% of the time we can get it. That makes it fun and usually we can get some reward.

    3 - I agree with the point that 99% of the xp comes from scripted quests and I see no problem on that. What makes difference for me is the stuff. Xp you can gain and lose but the stuff usually you keep forever. And great sstuff come from events.

    4 - "not enough people to quest" It happens but there are many quests that 2 or 3 players can do. Sendings work pretty well and people usually come to answer it.



  • Just so you guys know- this seriously is going down this month. The DMs are actively looking for you adventurers! Go out and do awesome shit, be it as part of a group or as the one leading it. Have fun!


  • Storyteller [DM]

    Just to clarify what our position is here.

    If people want to try extra hard this month to do cool things, we are more than willing reward the effort with XP and cool loot. That said, this is not limited to one month. This what we want players to do throughout the year, and is what we will reward -every- month. So don't feel like you only have a month to do cool things, because you don't!

    Also, use the player plot forum! We can't help you guys do cool stuff if we don't know what you're trying to do.



  • Time to get my anti-magic cloak 😃 sounds like I'll be here for a good fun while.



  • I… Really don't understand the point of this thread, except to encourage players to Go out there and explore and do awesome stuff and get involved in intrigue.

    I've been back roughly for a month after a vacation of roughly a year, and this whole month I've seen DM's quite literally shower PC's with awesome loot, rewards, plothooks and XP - Comparing to the V4, in V5 the PC's really feel like they are the movers and shakers, with NPC's being more in the backgrounds.
    From what I've seen, DM's are already doing their best to help the players push things forward - it's up to the players to tell the DM's what they are up to, and what they want to do. Communication is key to success. Use the player plot forum, use irc, run your plans through a DM and ask their opinion.



  • The point of the thread is to make players aware of this as a fact, and not to shy away thinking they cant/shouldnt do adventuring and making excuses in their mind. Which has been the main factor why there's not much adventuring in the first place.

    But now there is. Good stuff! Go do those plot posts and PMs!


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