Loans
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It's been my sad experience with making significant IC loans (between 5000-20000) to players' characters that this is a poor investment in time and effort. I think, of the five large loans I've made as a character to various other characters, only one was paid off. With all the others, the players got bored with their characters or CoA and dumped them, left playing, RL got in the way etc.
Now, for me, the coin is not a problem. I have more than enough and am not pointing fingers at any player and do not wish those players to respond with specific why's and wherefore's. I am, however, trying to understand the community feeling and experiences of larger loans, from both creditor and debtor point of view.
Also, I am fully aware of and enjoy responding to a character who chooses IG to default on a debt and face the IC consequences that move towards PvP. Also, I do understand the risk of a player's character dying IC and thus abandoning the character - these are IC risks and separate from the discussion I wish to forment.
My question to the community is:
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In my opinion. it's up to the loaner to do the homework on whether or not you think the character/player will pay the loan back or quit the character, etc.
Take a bank for example, they won't just make you sign a contract saying you will pay back, there will be background checks, etc.
When dealing in loaning significant amounts, I would always look at OOC characterisitics too. Does the player have character ADD? There is nothing wrong with that and to each his own to have fun on the server but I would never lend someone 5000-20000 gold if I see them on 7 different characters in a weeks span.
Also, you have to look at why the person wants the loan. Is it to buy the Ultimate Axe of Death or is it to get an insane plot going? The chances of someone getting bored with an axe are greater then the chances of getting bored of being in the middle of your dream plot.
Finally, I don't think the pressure of debt is what makes a character become abandonned but then again, I have never been loaned 20000 gold.
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I've been lending a lot of money to other characters a few times, and im fine with that, but the one time I did lend a large amount myself, I hated it, as making money became a chore, since it wasn't going to be spent on anything other then surviving, and repaying the loan.
I haven't taken any large loans since, and wont again, for that very reason.
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… I don't think the pressure of debt is what makes a character become abandonned...
… the one time I did lend a large amount myself, I hated it, as making money became a chore, since it wasn't going to be spent on anything other then surviving, and repaying the loan.
I haven't taken any large loans since, and wont again, for that very reason.
Luinil's comment is the one that I was considering.
Bloated, your comment about not lending to players who run with 7-10 characters is a wise one
Also, I am interested in your point regarding the purpose of the loan. Goal related loans might have a lot more staying power than item related ones. Also, making goal related loans rewards the server as a whole, but making item related loans probably only supports the debtor. Something to consider, I suppose.
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Ask for security, some long-established player who will guarentee the loan will be repaid.
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Moloch's suggestion is the best one I can think. When I had to look for a flat over the past few weeks most of them wanted a "Garanteur", somebody who would guarantee that I play the bills on a regular basis. This would work perfectly here I believe. Of course, the newer players/characters would have an incredibly hard time, but then…
My personal experience with loans is that- They work for people who do not die and leave immediately (like the huge loan I did for Foehammer when he needed a rez), new characters, in general, do not repay loans, as they might dissapear all of a sudden be it by death an WL, or "RL causes" (at one point, even though I had profits I had a sheet of paper full of people still indebted to me, the vast majority never got repayed).
In general when it comes to me repaying loans I try to repay them within a week, if not quicker. Even if I plan on WLing a character I first repay my loans the best way I can, then leave.
I'd say depending on the size of the loan, you take an equal number of precautions. A man wants 20,000 lyons, tell him to sign a contract, with two garanteurs (both different characters, of different players), do a credit check and then, hand over the money.
Smaller money allows acceptable risks I suppose...
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When I used to loan money to other characters, I'd only do it if I knew there was someone else I could chase up in the event the initial person disappeared. I've never been on the other side, and borrowing money, though. I remember one of BrokenGunblade's characters was notorious for never repaying loans ICly, and that was always great fun.
If they struggled to repay it (say if it was large, or took longer than a week) then I'd accept shaving cash off the top in exchange for espionage, betraying friends, setting people up to be attacked, that kind of thing.
I did get a lot that weren't repaid or not in full, but for me at least, loans were never about money at all, but as a way to gain information, favours, resources or friends.
I'd never have considered a loan above about 5,000, though, and most of the time I did loans it was for an item I was selling that the buyer couldn't initially afford, rather than straight out cash (that meant that if they didn't pay it in full, then I might have at least broken even on my costs).
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As Raslyn, I've made several loans. The only one I can think of that was not repaid was because the characters were killed assaulting the red dragon. I made loans for as little as 600 and as much as 5000. Perhaps because it was during the era of having Mather as a bodyguard, they were all repaid (save for the dragon incident). The only other incident was finely handled ICly with threats and intimidation. I made sure to tell people ICly "If you dont pay on time, I'll send him to see you." (meaning Mather)
I set most of them up as weekly payments, which may have helped in getting at least most of it back should they have died/lost coin in the time it took them to collect the whole amount.
Sometimes I asked for collateral. If they had none I raised the interest rate a point or two. I also asked for the names of "next of kin" with the implied threat that if loans were not paid on time, family/friends might be visited.
Maybe I was just really lucky.
Dracart Family Financial Services… are still open for business!
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I gave so many loans as my merchant, both in equipment and in coin, that I don't think it would be a stretch to say it was in the 100,000 range easily.
My only advice is this: Be sure that when you give equipment or a loan to people, you have to accept that it is gone. If you get it back, RP bonus. If not, at least you gave someone the opportunity to have RP.
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I usually just gave out large sums of money. If you have enough money to loan someone a large sum might as well give it away. Granted that person is someone your character actually knows or sumthin. I mean, who really loans to someone they don't know anyway?
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My only advice is this: Be sure that when you give equipment or a loan to people, you have to accept that it is gone. If you get it back, RP bonus. If not, at least you gave someone the opportunity to have RP.
This is the ethos that I have grown to adopt.
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Hire some thugs in real life to shake the guilty party down until he pays up IG. :twisted:
