New Potion System
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Hi everyone.
The new potion brewing system has been in place for a couple of weeks.
I'd like to share a few comments on it to see if the community can help to improve it.To craft potions:
a) with the old system you needed:- to know the relevant spell
- to have access to one cauldron
- to have an empty potion, a memorized spell and gold+xp necessary for that spell
b) with the new system you need
- to know the relevant spell
- to have the relevant recipe
- to have an empty potion, a memorized spell and gold+xp necessary for that spell
What is still under management/might be improved:
1. cauldron: it is stated that brewing potions with the assistance of a cauldron might give you different outcome in the brewed potion. I've tested it with two different recipes and I received no differences in the final product. What it could be interesting to have: location would influence the level of potion or give additional effects (not sure if this is doable however). Example: a barkskin brewed into the heart of Hullack could have double the duration, a shield in the mage guild cauldron double duration etc etc) _2. feats: it could be interesting that a transmuter/abjurer/illusionist could get better potions than a "non-specialized" wizard. Is this implementable within the system? (i.e. Irongut crafted by a SF abjurer might last more, much more for a GSF)
3. recipes: some of the recipes are easy to find (shield-invisibility etc), others are almost impossible (for instance Blur). I do understand the system is still "work-in-progress" so I do suggest the following:
- recipes can be copied (I think the master who teaches the apprentices how to brew potions)
- recipes can be found on quests (this is already planned as far as I understand)
- the "x" uses of a recipe to craft potions is not an interesting option in my opinion unless it is for rare and appealing potions (i.e. stonekin is ok, shield/blur is not)
- for some potions (but not the rare ones) additional spell components might be used (not sure if it is doable with crafting however). Example: a protection from elements, using a quartz crystal, will double its effects against electricity.
4. costs: prices of the first circle have increased a lot. I'm not a wand crafter so I don't know how the ratio is but, as far as I can see from the market rates, a potion of Shield costs around 45-50 while the same spell in a wand roughly 18. Before the change it was 35-40 vs 18. Can the cost for 1st level be lowered? (level 2 and above are fine)
Potion crafters, buyers and DM, share your thoughts!_
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Well…..
Potion recipes not being available due to having to find them is nice idea i suppose,but i have to say it sucks for all the none magic types on the server i know right now noone can make blur potions which are the staple of a monk/fighters potion requirement.
The prices i belive can be adjusted by the dm's and i presume will be so thats not to much of an issue.
The feats i don't agree with but if it was a illusionist subclass of wizard then i would say yes as that is sacrificing somthing to gain more skill in the chosen area.
Cauldrons.
Just get rid of them or make them reduce the cost in gold for making the potions as you can make bigger batches there for reducing the costs. -
My only concern so far has been the lack of recipes of potions I use to often make, and the costs of the ones I have tested so far - which is the healing. Its more expensive to make than the npcs (Moderate) or just not worth the time (Serious healing).
The rest, endurance, strenght, owls wisdom, remove fear have been fine. Still a work in progress though so we must have a little patience. Im just bummed I've lost nearly 4k gold on all the bugs but someones gotta get them right? :P
I think the recipes that should be rare are the one's we have never been able to be made before, or ones that allow cheaper potions.
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1. There is a bonus to brew near a cauldron. However, it will not happen all the time, it's something like 5%-10% chance, so it's possible people never got it yet, depending on how lucky or unlucky you are with the rolls.
2. I really like the idea to have potions have additional effects if you meet a certain requirements (location, feat, or anything else). However, the problem is that there is no special script that is fired when you -drink- a potion. The only thing that is fired is the standard spell (i.e Invisibility script for an invisibility potion). What that means is that I would have no way to apply any bonuses to -all- potions. So I would have to change all the spells script individually. I may end up doing it, but it'll be one spell at a time and it might take some considerable time.
3. As far as costs, there will be adjustments made in time, however the level 1 spells are quite appropriately costed as it is. Players have to keep in mind that the old system's costs were 5 years old and had not been adjusted in a long time. Nearly all our quests drop more gold now than they did 5 years ago.
Just shield as an example; A potion of shield in an NPC store is 132 gold, for a level 1 spell. However, everyone will agree how powerful a spell it is, making you immune to magic missile. So at the current NPC price, those potions are still cheap to brew and PC can make a considerable profit.
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2. I really like the idea to have potions have additional effects if you meet a certain requirements (location, feat, or anything else). However, the problem is that there is no special script that is fired when you -drink- a potion. The only thing that is fired is the standard spell (i.e Invisibility script for an invisibility potion). What that means is that I would have no way to apply any bonuses to -all- potions. So I would have to change all the spells script individually. I may end up doing it, but it'll be one spell at a time and it might take some considerable time.
I am not an expert in scripting but I was thinking, what about recipes whose prerequisite would be a feat (i.e. SF Illusion) that, when used, will create a potion of "extended invisibility" or Invisibility lvl 6 (instead of 3)?
Wouldn't it be similar to the Barskin/greater Barkskin potions sold by the druid in the city? -
Thge other aspect that Spell Focus and GSF might affect is the brewing cot of the spell. I guess that this would be much more achievable, much quicker, than having to rescript every spell script.
Spell Focus might require 10% less GP
Greater Spell Focus might require 10% less XP and 10% less GPSo, if you take the feats, you get tangible benefits in potion brewing or wand crafting.
I'd still love to see duration/power benefits when Yardsale or other DM had the time to look at them. These would really make distinguishing features between mages who are generic and ones who focus on specialisation.
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2. I really like the idea to have potions have additional effects if you meet a certain requirements (location, feat, or anything else). However, the problem is that there is no special script that is fired when you -drink- a potion. The only thing that is fired is the standard spell (i.e Invisibility script for an invisibility potion). What that means is that I would have no way to apply any bonuses to -all- potions. So I would have to change all the spells script individually. I may end up doing it, but it'll be one spell at a time and it might take some considerable time.
True Strike from a potion acts differently then the spell, if you happen to look in the script there, might find out how it was done (I don't know myself, and I forget who scripted that)
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You check if a spell was cast by an item, then check the tag of the item. The code isn't that tough actually.
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It's not tough, just time consuming as I explained. So it might take a while until I've modified all the spells I want to have additionnal effects.
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Yes, any change like that is a PITA.
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Coming back on the recipes having a limited number of uses. Let me explain the rationale behind it, using Ghostly Visage as the example.
There are potions that are far more valuable on the market than others. Ghostly Visage potions are amongst those, because of the power they have in our setting.
The way we want to go with those is that those potions would only be available through work/effort from the players. Be it in the form of a quest, or exploration, or just a lucky encounter. Then, we want those potions to have limited uses, so the person who finds it will probably have to go through the work/effort again at some point if he wants to enjoy being able to do those potions again. (Also, those potions recipes -might- come with an added bonus of allowing cheaper potions or allowing someone to go over the limit of 5 potions per day). In my view as a DM, this is a reasonable tradeof.
The fact that those potions are -required- by some builds is not a good enough reason to make those recipes available in unlimited quantities, since anyone can still just buy them from an NPC merchant if they desire. Potion Crafting is not the end of all things when it comes down to potions. Sure, crafters can make a profit, other PCs can buy at lower prices, but if a Potion Crafter wants to be sucessful starting from now, he'd better work for it through adventure, involving others and etc.
We'd like our potion crafters to -do- those quests and -explore- those places or -steal- or -send low-level PCs fetch- those recipes that they need for their craft. We want to get away from the mindless and boring way potion crafting was handled in the past.
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I think pure fighters and barbarians already have a hard enough time making a profit on quests without restricting their access to the potions that are essential to them. It was already hard enough with the old pricing, imagine now. But that's just my opinion.
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The fact that those potions are -required- by some builds is not a good enough reason to make those recipes available in unlimited quantities, since anyone can still just buy them from an NPC merchant if they desire. Potion Crafting is not the end of all things when it comes down to potions. Sure, crafters can make a profit, other PCs can buy at lower prices, but if a Potion Crafter wants to be sucessful starting from now, he'd better work for it through adventure, involving others and etc.
And again we see every combat build taking 3 levels of rogue so they can use wands….
Also before was mentioned the fact quests drop more gold now...The reason they drop more gold now is that if they didn't then none optimal parties lose out when doing them,saying well they drop more so you can buy from npc's is basicly taking a huge leap backwards.
150 + any loot found say 30 gold is the average payout for level 1-6 quests that buys you 1 blur potion from an npc so if you have to use two potions on it your out of pocket already. -
@Amy:
And again we see every combat build taking 3 levels of rogue so they can use wands….
That's totally untrue.
@Amy:
Also before was mentioned the fact quests drop more gold now…The reason they drop more gold now is that if they didn't then none optimal parties lose out when doing them,saying well they drop more so you can buy from npc's is basicly taking a huge leap backwards.
150 + any loot found say 30 gold is the average payout for level 1-6 quests that buys you 1 blur potion from an npc so if you have to use two potions on it your out of pocket already.They drop more gold because we reevaluated the Risk / Reward factor of our quests, not to account for non-optimal parties. On top of that, low-level quests now drop more gold because we wanted to ease the leveling experience on the server. We do not balance our server for non-optimal parties at all, so I don't know where you got that from.
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@Amy:
And again we see every combat build taking 3 levels of rogue so they can use wands….
That's totally untrue.
I think that was a prediction and not an observation.
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@Amy:
And again we see every combat build taking 3 levels of rogue so they can use wands….
That's totally untrue.
I think that was a prediction and not an observation.
Quest with someone that can healer that likes you.
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Suzicoa wrote.
Quest with someone that can healer that likes you.
That wasn't the point of the post but thanks for the input i'll have to remember the advice…..
The point is when you remove the most commonly used potions and have to buy from npc's it costs to much to be worth questing without a party maxed for profit.
Example.
Blur potions vs wands blur cost 132 gold per potion from npc's from a pc it costs on average 90 so to compare it to a wand thats 25 charges of blur on a wand made buy a pc for thr cost of 1125 to make so 1500 to buy.
25 potions from a pc is 2250 and from a store is 3300 thats more than twice the cost for the wand now is my point becoming alittle clearer?
