RE: High Level PCs Announcement
-
I'm still baffled about what part of "this is mostly just DMs saying to the players of disruptive characters you are not welcome on DM events and plots" is upsetting you glow, and are you confused by the statement where we basically say "in some circumstances, we will even have to retire your character" which is clearly reserved for people who go well beyond "enjoying the module in their own way" to actually "causing damage to the health of the server and its community".
This all is pretty straight forward. Its not a new policy, it is how we've always done it. We're just letting people know this now.
I'm also not keen with your elitist attitude and insults against any of our players. That was not appropriate behavior for the forums to single yourself and a few people out as better than anyone else.
-
I didn't. I said we get high levels quickly.
-
You elitistly claimed the announcement wasn't aimed at you and a few other people then said it was clearly aimed at several other people. 'nuff said there. Don't do it again please, it is not polite.
-
This is all very interdasting.
-
Well, I feel whatever the DMs see as something worth doing or keeping is probably something worth trying.
Although I sort of always advocated for higher levels on the server, maybe the top being 15.
Why? Because it would be damn cool and epic.
But that would also require a deep and time consuming change in the module. Which very few DMs would like to do.
So, I am really happy with things as they are. Sure high levels are cool, but with the new ton of possibilities we see every month I feel it would be just a sort of vain fantasy comming true.
-
While I d also like a controlled level inflation, I think the problem would not only be monster and quest changes to adapt to the change. PvP at levels 8-10 tends to be somewhat balanced between casters and meleers. Of course this is due to the wide availability of potions, wands and maybe bloodstones as well which can be used and tweaked to rebalance the whole thing.
On the other hand 15 might be too high, these are levels better reserved for NPCs to reflect some power. I was more thinking a rise of 1-2 levels tops. In any case priority for such change would be low on my list, especially when I 'd have to choose between all the other changes that happen to the module, which are new, refreshing and never seen before in the game, than a rise of a few levels, using a few higher level spells, all of which I 've seen and used and got bored with on other modules, even if those were epic level.
To conclude, fighter kits, druid companions and wildshift, monk kits, barbarian abilities etc, are a better kind of change than level inflation, since those give players new things to bring in their game, when a few levels more would bring little new things with much more work required behind the scenes by DMs.
-
Good post, viruzz.
I would also like to add that CoA's low-level, low-magic gritty atmosphere was what sold me on it, after playing on numerous high level grindfest servers. It's a very unique thing about Arabel and worked very well until now. Should definitely be preserved. -
My personal goals, with any of my characters, who might reach a sufficiently high level (although I only ever reached level 10 or 11 with one character) is to educate others, in the RP sense. Dredo had a handful of Apprentices (though I admit, I wasn't active enough to upkeep them) and from time to time he had his occasional appearance to help out in a bigger event, because he held both the knowledge, experience and immense power.
Once Wu reaches that high level (I aim even at level 8 or 9) he will focus on the less Militaristic and more Spiritual side of being a Warrior and welcome anybody who wishes to join him. My personal aspiration with a high level character is to become, perhaps wrongly, a middle man between DM Events and player interaction. Since the character is too powerful he cannot take party in every single event, but he may direct his pupils or apprentices toward adventure and intrigue.
I know that I should be the one focusing on Intrigue and Adventure but I tend to play characters who do not engage in such, unless a specific area to their interest is under threat. For example, if the Eclestians returned to Arabel and swore to eliminate every single Necromancer in Arabel then Dredo would plot against them. If suddenly a force attacked Arabel, and they were after destroying all life, or enslaving the people then Wu would step in (among many other cases). I do not like playing characters who constantly seek recognition or "Grandoise" (there is nothing wrong with playing such characters, I simply do not like playing them). I like my characters a bit like Zatoichi. Old blind man with a stick, but if you get on the wrong side of him prepare to be impaled on his pointy blade. A goal is useful, but sometimes an adventurer has the liberty to feel "content". It is up to local events to wake up such a character, you cannot always set your own goals, fate has to throw something at you as well.
-
Demons and devils, evil necromancers, liches, creatures from worlds unimaginable, and tyrant lords are always trying to enslave evryone. All the time.
So Wu needs to step in!
-
My personal goals, with any of my characters, who might reach a sufficiently high level (although I only ever reached level 10 or 11 with one character) is to educate others, in the RP sense. Dredo had a handful of Apprentices (though I admit, I wasn't active enough to upkeep them) and from time to time he had his occasional appearance to help out in a bigger event, because he held both the knowledge, experience and immense power.
Once Wu reaches that high level (I aim even at level 8 or 9) he will focus on the less Militaristic and more Spiritual side of being a Warrior and welcome anybody who wishes to join him. My personal aspiration with a high level character is to become, perhaps wrongly, a middle man between DM Events and player interaction. Since the character is too powerful he cannot take party in every single event, but he may direct his pupils or apprentices toward adventure and intrigue.
I know that I should be the one focusing on Intrigue and Adventure but I tend to play characters who do not engage in such, unless a specific area to their interest is under threat. For example, if the Eclestians returned to Arabel and swore to eliminate every single Necromancer in Arabel then Dredo would plot against them. If suddenly a force attacked Arabel, and they were after destroying all life, or enslaving the people then Wu would step in (among many other cases). I do not like playing characters who constantly seek recognition or "Grandoise" (there is nothing wrong with playing such characters, I simply do not like playing them). I like my characters a bit like Zatoichi. Old blind man with a stick, but if you get on the wrong side of him prepare to be impaled on his pointy blade. A goal is useful, but sometimes an adventurer has the liberty to feel "content". It is up to local events to wake up such a character, you cannot always set your own goals, fate has to throw something at you as well.
i love the whole concept, and to a lesser degree i have been trying some of what you have been doing/setting as a goal (with the exception of being a middle person for the DM's, for some reason, mainly because of timing, i have little contact with them and they with me) i have had many apprentices with my one character over the years, and it has and still is a never ending source of fun for me, as i am constantly surprised, something people would think is impossible for a character that has been played for so long, but if you let the river of time that is arabel carry you in its current or events, you will be constantly changed. with both my characters they are hardly the same characters that i started with those years ago now. Cilwa is of course closer to what she was at the start simply because i determined to stay the course with her as far as her motivations, she cannot be changed and has not. Rav on the other hand is nothing like the character she was when i started playing her, she has been constantly developing
both my characters have actual goals, but i have not really shared them with many of the DM's (sharing with only one does not constitute sharing i suppose) do i care if the DM"s have time for my goals? not really ,they find fun in other things, much like i do when i am in the game with either of my characters. i have very specific short term goals and long term goals with both my characters, and both are being satisfied in game, it is the nature of the server that such can be accomplished without bothering the DM's
I have read a lot of the posts here and have taken note, I vow I will not interfer with DM events as they occur and if i should happen to fall into some plot I shall make sure it is quickly handed off to someone who is capable and will have fun in the event (ok..i usually hand stuff off to who ever happens to be handy at the time, i have done so in the past and shall continue to do so). I appologize for the 2 events(i can think of at the moment, there may have been a couple others during the recent shadovar war, i seem to remember being in flynn when one event was taking place) i did stumble in on and caused a bit of interference with, the first i can remember was a incident in easthaven before it blew up and the second a orc invasion outside the east gate more recently, normally i would simply stay back a signifigant distance and then after the event had cleared would come in to aid the fallen or injured, carrying bodies and healing any wounded, simply to find out first hand what event had happened, if it is ok (with the DM's permission of course) i would like to still wander in after the event has finished to do similar.
if it is not ok, i am fine with that as well, afterall i am playing characters that many people and DM's think have been around too long, but from my perspective that is not so, the stories are still developing with no real end in sight for me, really the only one that may have a dicernable end in sight is Cilwa (if for some reason she manages to accomplish what she wants she will have to be retired, but that goal is impossible for a character that cannot partake in even the simplest of combat, i know that is needed for any higher goal, it is of course not the bread and butter of any quest, but combat is either the bread..or the butter)
-
You can come along and learn about what happened after an event, just try not to summon young white dragons and wipe the floor with the level 7 orcs that are supposed to be attacking the city. (not that you caused any real issues in that event, just an example.) :)
-
I don't even think levels are really the issue. Do you really care less about a stagnant character that might have been around for 6+ months just because they hover around level 5-7?
High level PCs who are involved in conflict, or plotting and working towards endgoals that will eventually lead to it, are pretty fine in my eyes. PC's who have no ambitions for conflict, nor personal plots to work towards or ambitions to realize, regardless of level, don't add as much to the server as they could be.
And for those latter players who also happen to be high level, I don't think the solution is, as has been suggested, for DM's to one day turn around and say to these players 'You have too much XP. We're setting you back to level 9, and you can't ever go past this point with this particular character'. That leads to them starting another character and repeating the cycle, or else leaving the server and diminishing the playerbase further.
Nor do I think the solution is to fob them off by spending a few hours running an endlude event that retires them. This doesn't teach them why their character was ultimately unsuccessful - indeed, it might even serve to reinforce the behaviour that led to them being a stagnant high level PC in the first place.
The solution should be teaching them the value of conflict. Creating conflict. Fostering conflict. Engaging in conflict. Conflict as between factions, groups, organizations and individuals is the lifeblood of a server – and it's actually quite fun too.
It's also something that can be led to a certain extent by NPC's. Take the time to show the strains already showing between the uneasy alliance of the ambitious and competitive Noble Houses comprising the Silver Bannermen by having the NPC retainers occasionally clash openly, despite the calls for unity and cooperation. Have NPC druids bemoan to PC druids of the trapped elemental souls powering Maleen's golem army, and who prays for a champion to rise up to liberate them. Players, especially ones not accustom to creating their own conflict, can and do take their cues from the environment around them.
Finally, I think the decision to say that at a certain level DM factions simply won't take you as a recruit is misguided. The very, very best way to get these characters involved in conflict is by getting them into a DM faction. DM factions give characters focus, direction, a small network of allies and the encouragement to engage in the kind of conflict that could lead to natural ends for the PC. Ostracising them, however, only leads to them floundering in quest spam without any real direction or goals to their PC's.
There's my two cents anyway.
-
It is not every lvl 10 character who has an ending.
Some don't have.
I am very concious I still play a very stagnant lvl 10 character, who only comes up for some fun and rp eventually. He is not my main, though.
I just don't have the time to play consistently anything else. So I got for what is fun. ;)
I believe there may be other people in situations like mine.
-
Those are good ideas XavierJandell, but often we are enforcing this policy with players who we have already made this effort with and they've made it clear that they prefer a play style that does not involve getting other players involved in story telling. They just want to roleplay an adventurer who reaches high levels quickly. As the DMs here don't want to enforce a certain style of play, we're just making it clear that if that is your style and you have no interest in doing what we reward, be prepared for us to ask you to stay out of DM events entirely because they are designed for people who follow a different playstyle.
I do not want to ever comment on specific cases, but in my time DMing here, we've only really had to say "no more DM events for you, no PvP for you, avoid DM plots with this PC of yours please" to about two or three people. All of whom we had spent copious amounts of time trying to encourage to roleplay in a more immersive way, all of whom made it clear they did not intend to do so.
-
Totally disagree(with Xaiver not the later posts) I know for a fact if i need information about something that happened i ask the old characters as i really think that having no one know what Raghat did or how he did it 2 months down the line is just sad,same for any other great character Pree is another example everyone goes on about how awesome he was 9 years ago i joined the server just after his death and the name was never mentioned in fact no pc has every said it it the hearing of any of my characters.
Without the older characters there is no history so long as they arn't disrupting events or just turning up to gank the opposition on plot endings i have problem with them in fact i find them useful as they help your characters to grow in game by learning what has happened and how they failed etc.. -
@Amy:
Without the older characters there is no history
Tell that to the librarian NPC who is offering a staggering 5,000 gold for someone to make a written account of the Shadovar war.
There are much better ways to ensure these events are remembered, and it shouldn't be the sole justification to continue playing a character that you know some server history that you fear might be lost.
-
Your missing the point when you are in game where the game is played rather than forum rping which is boring and dull go try and find out what Pree did without a DM.
Or what happened to the house of jacob or any other the details will be missing from the forums but if there is a character that had some involvement with those groups your new character can learn about it and use that knowledge in game.
To me thats a darn site better than reading books on the forums that just give a general outline of what happened without any useful details. -
I like the odd old character with a load of old lore being around, would be awesome if they all wrote books of the stuff they knew about too. So long as they don't disturb the rest of the server with super powers and suddenly blast a hole in a story, they're fine.
But thats what we said.
All we're doing is laying out the situation so it's clear and transparent. We're not telling people not to play their own way, but we are encouraging players to try out something new sometimes.
-
You can come along and learn about what happened after an event, just try not to summon young white dragons and wipe the floor with the level 7 orcs that are supposed to be attacking the city. (not that you caused any real issues in that event, just an example.) :)
i feel terrible about that event….when it happened i was not fully aware of the new rules (though i should have been, not knowing is not a excuse) my mindset was…"..i finally get to be a hero in arabel..dragon ..do me proud!!" then i wander in..thankfully unseen....and then my lack of experience in situations like this shows, i watch with glee as my plans begin to play out and soon i will be hailed as a hero!!!!!!!!!
or so i thought, dragon marches in and starts to kill everyone with its area of effect breath weapon!! panic then sets in i am "omg omg omg…no no no no...." and i rush quickly to a transition, of course not till i have been standing for what felt like a eternity in stunned disbelief..then come back still invisible..and start to try to make amends for my faux pas, used up a healing wand, and gave a pile of potions to a character who resists the healing wand
even if we did not have the guidelines set out….i planned on never repeating a incident like that ever again, i felt sick over what had transpired, i had made up my own mind to avoid events in that type of a capacity, choosing instead to merely lurk and add some aid in the odd bits of random healing (with both Rav and cilwa, since they both can carry arcane healing wands)
-
It's no biggie honestly! :)