RE: High Level PCs Announcement
Just in case players have questions about this thread. Here is a place to ask or discuss.
Donkeypuffy last edited by
I assume lvl 10 is still counted as a "high" lvl and should really be considering this as well?
Yes, the thinking is that people will think this way through the whole career of their character, but DMs start paying attention to you carefully at level 10. By 11 we're taking it seriously.
khammy last edited by
Uber level characters unbalancing DM events is so annoying…I am glad to see this restriction in place.
Eliphas last edited by
One thing I always wondered about is why there is no level cap if you want to see characters retire after ten (or get to the point of retiring). I would think you could just put a cap on all players (Level 10). Eliphas was a way long termed character. I get clingy to all my characters but three and half years was a long time! As time has passed though I can how being higher than ten can be annoying to Dm's, although I've also seen how they can make their stories awesome with it. At those levels the players should be making the events, not just joining in on DM one's. I nearly reached 14 with Eliphas, and yeah he was pretty overpowering. Akdul was nearly 13, but harder to play (First time playing evil, so gathering people for me was a mission)
Im sure Im not the only player that can ask this question though - what do you do if you find that you…don't die often, and easily obtain these levels? Every character I've played has reached level ten rather easily. On all of them I rarely ever died, I do think I know the mechanics well and I play smart when I play. I've even taken big risks and still came out alive. I find I reach the high levels too quickly (and I don't even quest often!), but since it comes so quick my plots and story don't develop like I want them too, and by then much is expected of the character. (This was after Eliphas, he had enouh time). Slavarian and Akdul this mostly happened too, and although each is a unique case cause of their stories I do think other players might experience this too?
Players shouldn't be afraid to ask the DM's their opinions though on level. A lot of advice was given when I played Akdul (When Belrak was alive, I was 12 and him 11. We had a tough time making things interesting for other players) Im sad I didn't get to see his end though, my life got pretty busy for months and I couldn't play him properly near the end.
In answer to your first question:
1). We have quests that take you above level 10, many DMs actually want higher level PCs, but not all of us agree here.
2). We also want players to go above level 10 even if we did put a cap, especially if they're doing lots of awesome stuff.
In answer to your second question:
I get that some people don't die often. So we hardly want to punish people for that, but please realize there is an upper limit. As I said, we have a deal with our players. We let you play higher level characters, we ask that you spend extra time role playing with lower level characters and getting them involved. Since you likely won't be doing that many quests (since you leveled up to the point where you can't do many) then you should have lots of time to role play with these characters and start thinking about how you want to end your character's story.
Good example of how a level ten + should be, powerful, but taking a back seat, and aiming towards a epic end!
I personally would loath to retire a character for completely ooc reasons (just because he reached a certain level, for example).
Why not just make 10+ levels attainable only as a DM granted boon?
Problem solved without crashing anyone's party.
Read above direfish.
It's not like this is a new thing it's always been this way Moloch has just put it up here to remind players.
If you want to play a level 12 character that just does the odd quest and has fun with a few others it's not an issue…On the other hand if you grind to 10+ then suddenly start running rough shod over lowbies and trying to take over DM events when you have done nothing before you got there your going to be on the DM shit list.
Yes, Moloch, but the message is somewhat mixed.
As far as i understand, the current approach goes like "We don't mind you getting to 10+ levels, but we also expect you to consider retirement shortly after that. And if you weren't awesome during your previous career, don't expect a cool retirement."
Yes, I agree that high levels and retirement should go together. But i suggested the opposite interdependency. Not levels leading to (possibly untimely) retirement, but rather levels granted for cool retirement.
More like "You can only get to 10+ levels if you're doing some awesome stuff AND as a part of your retirement plan."
Does it make any sense to you?
That makes sense, but here is how it'll go:
"You're level X now, what's your plan for retirement."
Because it isn't all about the level, its also about the amount of loot you begin to accumulate at that level, the amount of gold, and the stagnation of the characters who hit these levels and just sit there for months and months without really making an impact despite our emphasis on roleplaying characters. Often the problem level X characters are simply wandering alone in the wilds, killing stuff, crafting, farming spawns etc.
Our biggest concern is that as a server that wants to encourage active play and engagement, these high level characters set a poor example for what we want out of the player base. Be the highest level players can obtain 10 or 40, the actual core issue isn't the level–its the style and lack of contribution to the server.
Does that make more sense?
I think I'm getting it.
It's not as much about levels, as about getting rid of stagnating non-contributing characters who accumulate too much mechanical power. And maintaining the character rotation tempo.
Since quests go up to level 12, you will get high level characters
Actually there's at least one quest for lvl 13. I went on the OOC DM Test run with the other two lvl 13's who played at the time.
Are there that many characters over lvl 10 actively unballancing DM events?
Whenever i was informed by DMs i was too high a lvl for what they were doing i would gladly bow out. If i wasn't told otherwise i assumed it was ok to be involved. It was as simple as that.
I admit I am of two minds on the level subject. I have played on a server that caped out at 10 and have to admit, I -really- like the idea of the quests going up to 12. It may not seem like much, but some classes really start to shine at 11 and 12. In particular, classes that are much weaker at lower levels. Still, I can certainly see the DMs point in regards to power versus input to the server. I actually think the compromise proposed is the healthiest for the server.
1. You get to keep playing your character regardless, the DMs may just ask you to bow out on certain things.
2. It greatly encourages you to start trying to get into the plots of the server. This is a great thing both from a server perspective and a personal perspective. On the server side everyone is working to make the plots that much more awesome (either as a driver or as a support). On the personal side, take it from me. Playing non-plot oriented characters is much less fun that plot characters. I was very guilty of playing a quest spamming non plot oriented character, and frankly when I gave plots a try I was blown away by how much fun they were.
My two cents.
I am good with retiring characters at level 10, I am good with a cap at level 10 and I am good to go for another level or two if it makes sense for the server (and I think especially the evil characters who really move the server). What I would wish for are some good retirement or awesome death opportunities that come as the icing on the cake of a character that has run his course. Personal best example for me was my weretiger bard Osynthir who had a utterly awesome ending. It was just perfect. Perhaps a rule should really be to talk to a DM about ending a character once you hit level 10?
Well, as I said, and possibly need to be more clear about. DMs are happy to help people retire higher level PCs. Keep in mind, we say start thinking of this stuff by level 10.
Quests should let you get to level 12 though, so there is time to consider it.
The quest that gets people to level 13 should not be in the module. That was an oversight, it'll be adjusted to take you to level 12 soon.
Ponies last edited by
It should also be noted there is nothing wrong with being lvl 10+ so long as you have a story left to tell, and are actively telling it. So its not like moloch will go through logs, and start wiping pcs once they hit lvl 10. The problem is stale and stagnated pcs of high level that do not have a story left to tell (or start telling it only at high levels, often relying mainly on mechanical prowesse to do so), and unblance things by their presense.
Eliphas last edited by
I only got to 13 (And when I did I asked a DM if I was allowed to level up then) and nearly 14 purely on DM experience. Theres not many quests at 12 and it does take forever to reach 13 from said quests only. I think there was only one other level 13 when I was playing, but its been months since I've played so maybe others popped up (Can't tell either now since they are hidden). I'd think you just have to make all level 12 quests available for x-11, should solve that.