Tactics for pvp and pvm
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I've gained some incredible respect for the players here in regards to their number crunching for combat! Is there some sort of resource or study guide that you would recomend for the tactics and counters that have been discused here on the forums? I suppose that it would be borderline metagaming for a character to actually know all of this stuff in game but… it would be handy for a player to know some of these things I suppose. I've recently read a lot of pvp threads, and someone was posting some stuff in the nerf the summoned vampire thread and it got me thinking. People mention that there are simple counters for certain things like vampires and whatnot, yet I find that I really don't know what they are.
Everyone metagames these tactics if they know them and I am at a considerable disadvantage having not studied up to the degree my friends here have. I need to attend a bootcamp for CoA tactics. What kind of resources do you all recommend? Over six years of CoA has only given me a rudimentary understanding of the tactics for surviving. In the interest of leveling the playing field I think we should have a sticky or link to tactics and counter tactics for the uninitiated.What sayeth the player base?
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Realistically, a fine idea. Everyone who wants to PvP well (and everyone wants to PvP well) will be looking, or working out this info anyway.
But to officially encourage it on the forums sounds like a dangerous beast, that sends the wrong message.
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I would ask a player individually about this sort of thing, i am with you though I've played here for 7 years and I still don't know much about mechanics and wouldn't mind a lesson or two.
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I'll have boot camp in IRC if it is needed.
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A CoA-only Arena type server for noobs?
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You don't want to ask a peanut gallery, and in truth, everyone has differing views. Stupid as it may sound, Sun Tzu knows best!
A battle is won before it is fought.
Know what you're fighting, enter the battle prepared.If you can't win a battle, don't enter one.
This really is the key to success. Tough skin makes you uber, ignore people calling you a coward, because you'll be alive to fight again, while they'll be rolling new PCs. -
I'd still love an CoA Arena thing.
Forte?
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I'd be interested in CoA arena thingy for practice, also.
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Awesomeman is exactly right.
Know your enemy and plan accordingly, and never be afraid to be a coward.
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AWESOMEMAN, I'm a big fan of Sun Tzu. To "know what your fighting" in NwN land and be able to compete on the level that some coa players are at is a numbers game. Tit for tat so to speak. A lot of pvp and pvm is being treated this way now from what I can tell. "Entering the battle prepaired" entails mastering the Tao of the 20 Sided Dice, and knowing monster and player stats and weaknesses from what I can gather. I've never had much of an attention span for that part of the game because to be honest it kind of bores me. What I was considering was some sort of basic reference for surviving in a more scientific coa than what we played in yesteryear. Something easy to refer to that doesn't entail memorizing a library of monster manuals and having a scientific calculator at my elbow. I've focused primarily on story telling and participating on other peoples stories for the most part. That's still going on, but players who are inept at mechanics quickly fall behind in all aspects of coa.
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Glow should have listened to Sun Tzu tonight =(
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@Broken:
I'd still love an CoA Arena thing.
Forte?
Sup?
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You can still host arenas bro?
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The D&D system is basically like a Rock, Sissors Paper sort of game. Virtually every spell has a counter or a defensive measure. Most spell descriptions have the opposed measure listed.
The trick is being able to have the right tool in the bag when you need it. With limited spell slots you need to rely on wands potions and such, yet it's unlikely you will have every angle covered.
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@Fireside:
Realistically, a fine idea. Everyone who wants to PvP well (and everyone wants to PvP well) will be looking, or working out this info anyway.
But to officially encourage it on the forums sounds like a dangerous beast, that sends the wrong message.
city of pvp bro
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I'd like to see this taken up IC. There have been examples over the years when a player has taught me Mechanics by using an IC forum.
Someone building this kind of approach as an experienced PvP'r PvM'r could well achieve Weapons Master PrC, I'd think. Training others and also giving fun whilst doing it.
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Read a decent version Sun Tzu's Art of War and put it's idea's into a Arabel based context a good start, he really knew his stuff.
I'm also quiet happy to chat wth you OOCly about it, since I belive in OOC knowologe balance. Failing that, hang with my character IG and I get you through boot camp!
I will also tell you this for nothing tho, you don't need a powerfull build for pvp, you do however need tatics, a team and a bit of thought.
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Bable informed me when talking with him yesterday, that there is ONE simple spell that would have won team "Not slim" the day. Dispel Magic.
Just about any "build", whether RP or not, will become a beast, with str, con, dex spells, barskin/shield potions, Haste, Accuracy, Blur, and a protection from good/evil.
Lets take a standard lvl 6 fighter…
16 12 14 10 14 12 stats, a regular full plate, and a +1 greatsword.
He has focus, spec, Powerattack. 6 + 3 + 1 + 1, ab, meaning 11/6, or 6/1 with powerattack on. His ac is 19, cause he spend all his money on that sword. Damage is 2d6 + 7, +12 with powerattack. His HP is lets say 66.
Lucky rolls, on everything. His Ac becomes +4 from shield, +3 from barkskin, +4 from haste. = 32 ac.
His stats are now 20 16 18 for str, dex, con. His HP is now 78.
His Damage Output, is +15 + 1d4 from alchemist fire and with powerattack. His AB, with accuracy, is 18/13. With aid, bless, and divine favor, its 21/21/16, flatfooted his 23/23/18. Loot at your current Character sheet, unbuffed. What is your AC? 20, 23? That is three more or less sure hits.
This son of a bitch, jumps at you out of no where. He is hasted, and is dealing a macimum of 12 + 15 + 1d4, average of that, for the first round, and three attacks, is 23 + 23 + 23 = 69 damage the first round, before -YOU- react.
The Potion cost of such an attack is roughly 500 gold pieces, and at lvl 6.Now imagine, say 6 people, around lvl 8 - 10. The Clerics and wizards, also buffed, dispel the people in Eveningstar. Meaning, all your own protections are more or less gone. Then the others jump in, and they arent just 1, they are maybe 4 - 6.
They attack, and retreat, they work as a team.
However, they arent unbeatable. My lvl 7 cleric, has a +2 reflex save. A tanglefoot bag, and I cant run anywhere. Hold person on that Barbarian, who was just dispelled? Now even people doing Nada can kill a lvl 6 or 10 Barbarian.
People on CoA NEVER have secondary weapons. They buy their +1 longsword, and are fine with it. Never carry a dagger, never carry another weapon, which is quickslottet.
Improved disarm, and your precious longsword, is gone.
Improved Knockdown, by a rogue, followed by sneak attack. You will be dead before you get up.
Its that simple.
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Read Sun Tzu the Art of War
This is actually one of my personal favourite books of all time, and of Draco's as well. While its strategies and tactics were meant for real battlefields, they work perfectly well on virtual battlefields like on COA as well. I tended with my characters to win most pvps, its only Awesome mans character which gave me a hard time, and that was after I had beaten him a couple of times. It shows he has read this masterpiece as well, when he plays.
The most important proverb from the Art of War is thus:
"Where defeated warriors seek battle first and then seek to win, successful warriors win first then seek battle."
Point of this proverb is that on games and in real battles, you should always before you engage, work out precisely how you will actually win, then go to the fight, inferior tactics means going to a fight without having a plan on how precisely to win, then hoping to win, which usuallly leads to defeat.
In practise, this means analysing an opponents strengths and weaknesses, then working out what tactics will work against a partiular weakness before a battle starts. For instance if a foe has weak reflex saves such as from being a fighter or a cleric, if you lob an acid bomb against them in a coming pvp, it will likely help you win that scrap.
The Art of War also places great emphasis on battle field invisibility and attacking from a position of strength.
This means that in pvp that if your are as a group, you should never fight, unless you have worked out beforehand how you will win, and when you are not engaged in pvp, but there is conflict keeping a low profile. This doesnt mean you must always walk around in invisibility, but means hiding where people would not think of looking for you, or going where the enemy cannot follow you. For instance, if a mage is hunting you, hiding in the sewers is a smart move, as they effectively cannot cast there, because of those nasty rift creatures.
Taking a class which has ranks in hide and move silently is a god idea for invisibility as well. Ranger by far make the best class for this, as they get +4 hide/move silent outside and a spell at lvl 4, which gives them +10 hide.
Part also from attacking from a position of strength, is also attacking a foe from a position of weakness. Part of the art of war, is to make the enemy foes vulenrable (weak) while making yours invulnerable (not literal but meaning strong). For instance if you are your crew are buffed, and your opponents not, the chances of you winning are up dramatically.
Deception is always a great tactic to master in pvp, the aim being to confuse your opponent. With Jacob and Q for instance, Jacob by and large wasnt the best damage dealer, Q was, as Q has three attacks which did sneak attack and money for nasty 'tricks' to use in pvp. But as I played Jacob to draw my enemies attention, everyone concentrated on him, who could take it, with plate, barkskin and stoneskin, instead of Q, who could rip opponents to pieces in a short space of time. Jacob incidentally, in human form only had a crappy club to fight with, probably the worst weapon in the game, while shifting to bear, was always risky, as they have weak ac.
Also in a larger battle, making an opponent think you are going for one objective whilst in reality you are going for another, is a great tactic. For instance lets say, I was in a faction, loyal to the city, which both had reasons to go to war with Easthaven and Castle Crag. If I wanted to aid my chances of victory, I would let everyone think, I was going for Crag, so all forces, including players are deployed there, while taking my eal forces to Easthaven, which would not have the same battle preparations.
Spartan
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While I am not a fan of a CoA's guide to how to be better mechanically, since the spirit of the server is that any build can do great things through RP, it is not a bad idea to play on arena/hack and slash servers from time to time if they still exist to up your game a bit. It's not necessary by any means, but you will learn a lot faster on a server geared towards mechanics.