Potion making - back to old?
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Im not sure if more work is ever going to go into this? But I think it should go back to the old system since not only is the current one still flawed (Prices of the few recipes that are actually out are too high), but theres too little recipes, its been months since anything new has come, and I feel the feat is useless now (As a priest, the only one worth making is a seroius healing, but since the price is higher on that than what it used to be, its just a few gold off from a npc (4 gold+-), so whats the point unless its for yourself)
If this system is not going to go anywhere, I think it should go back to the old for now, because I hardly ever am able to sell potions. Its a wasted feat really and I'd rather have something else. Im sure the other potion makers (Are there even any now?) feel the same. From the wide selection of potions I use to be able to make, I can only make four spells, only half of which people ever buy, which is pretty much never.
It was a nice idea of course as I'd have prefered this system if all recipes existed without the bugs in gold, but no point if you can't even much make any potions, let alone one's people will want to buy, without the bugs in the costs. It just does not seem to be going anywhere. I think it should go back to the old system if this is true.
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There are some really nifty recipes.
But in general, I completely agree. Then again, the DMs have said before that they want PCs to buy potions mostly from NPCs - crafted potions are just a little bonus to save money with. That would explain the massive gold inflation of the server's low level quests in the last three or two years.
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The main problem is that:
1. Some recipes make potions more expensive than the NPCs
2. There are too few recipes for the potions you should otherwise be making.
3. Improvements/changes never seem to be coming? Really been months with a useless feat.Im just pointing out/asking that the system does not seem to be going anywhere, and wands have not even been touched yet either (Which you do make way more profit on than potiosn ever will). I just don't see the point if you can't make many potions. As a priest, I only ever make -one- for myself due to the lack of recipes. At most, I can sell two types to others. But people don't even buy anymore, easier to buy from the npc's because its close to the price (Seroius healing).
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As a wizard I used to make good money on potions.
Adventurers use only 2-3 potions (mainly shield and blur, invisibility as well).Despite the interesting idea of being a merchant-potion brewer, from my experience the idea is not worth to sacrifice a feat and some RP.
Dms have not - from what I understand - supported any brewer merchant (i.e. giving them weird potion recipes such as Stoneskin, Imp Invis, Polymorph…) making the experience really not worth the time and the effort.That was one of the main reasons I left to play my wizard so I tend to agree with Eliphas on that, let's go back to the old system....
Edit: typo
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As a wizard I used to make good money on potions.
Adventurers use only 2-3 potions (mainly shield and blur, invisibility as well).Despite the interesting idea of being a merchant-potion brewer, from my experience the idea is not worth to sacrifice a feat and some RP.
Dms have not - from what I understand - supported any brewer merchant (i.e. giving them weird potion recipes such as Stoneskin, Imp Invis, Polymorph…) making the experience really not worth the time and the effort.That was one of the main reasons I left to play my wizard so I tend to agree with Eliphas on that, let's go back to the old system....
Edit: typo
While I have never played a brewer, I would typically believe that the DM's would hand out cool recipes to brewers that don't mass produce potions looking to start a business and profit. The feat could be used for other cool ideas like a battle field brewer for example. Walk around with empty vials and a ton of "reagents and ingredients" and brew potions on the spot for any ailment or need that your party has. Because yes the new system allows the use of teh feat without the need of a cauldron which is a MAJOR benefit. Simply put, I believe they want us to use the feat for what it is in order to twist it and create what we are all looking for, adventure and intrigue.
Note that I am not at all saying that you guys are in it for the profit as I haven't interacted with many of the current brewers.
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While I have never played a brewer, I would typically believe that the DM's would hand out cool recipes to brewers that don't mass produce potions looking to start a business and profit.
As far as I know no such option exists since it was stated that "brewing" feat is considered by DM team as a money saver (like SKill Focus Appraise), I don't see why a potion brewer should not RP being a merchant.
An alternative solution would be to work for a closed group. I.e. brewing only for a certtain group of people.The feat could be used for other cool ideas like a battle field brewer for example. Walk around with empty vials and a ton of "reagents and ingredients" and brew potions on the spot for any ailment or need that your party has. Because yes the new system allows the use of teh feat without the need of a cauldron which is a MAJOR benefit.
Not rally since if I brew a potion of Bull Strength it will only last 3 hrs, while if I cast it on a char it will last 1 hr level. So this won't add anything to the playability of my wizard/cleric char nor to its roleplayability. (with the exception of shield/blur potions but in that case it would be wiser to prepare the potions beforehanded and not during the quests. A side note on the RP of it. While in the middle of a quest my char should stop, prepare a camp fire, brew the potion and then give it to the player in need. How many people will be happy to interact with that char? Not many in my experience ("uh, dude, can you speed it up please I have 10 mins to end the quest then I have to log") and not on every quest.
Simply put, I believe they want us to use the feat for what it is in order to twist it and create what we are all looking for, adventure and intrigue.
I have brewed potioins in the Rakshasas' lab, in the middle of the swamp and in many other places hoping to receive some "weird" potion in order to promote additional "adventure and intrigue". Sadly I got no non-ordinary results (which can be, as I understand, a long serie of bad-luck rolls because scripts should be/are in place to support that activity).
Before leaving my char I used to brew a lot of shield potions for characters (mainly single class warriors) who needed them and could not use the wands.If you look at the number of brewers on the server now and before the changes were implemented you see the numbers plummet down. So either DMs do not care for potion brewers or players won't waste time and efforty in what they believe to be a useless feat.
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As a wizard I used to make good money on potions.
Adventurers use only 2-3 potions (mainly shield and blur, invisibility as well).Despite the interesting idea of being a merchant-potion brewer, from my experience the idea is not worth to sacrifice a feat and some RP.
Dms have not - from what I understand - supported any brewer merchant (i.e. giving them weird potion recipes such as Stoneskin, Imp Invis, Polymorph…) making the experience really not worth the time and the effort.That was one of the main reasons I left to play my wizard so I tend to agree with Eliphas on that, let's go back to the old system....
Edit: typo
While I have never played a brewer, I would typically believe that the DM's would hand out cool recipes to brewers that don't mass produce potions looking to start a business and profit. The feat could be used for other cool ideas like a battle field brewer for example. Walk around with empty vials and a ton of "reagents and ingredients" and brew potions on the spot for any ailment or need that your party has. Because yes the new system allows the use of teh feat without the need of a cauldron which is a MAJOR benefit. Simply put, I believe they want us to use the feat for what it is in order to twist it and create what we are all looking for, adventure and intrigue.
Note that I am not at all saying that you guys are in it for the profit as I haven't interacted with many of the current brewers.
So let me get this straight. Instead of -casting- a spell to get the required benefits, one should -brew- a potion of it (which requires, indeed, casting the spell), that is less effective, and costs about the same amount of coin than if you had bought one from the NPCs?
-Edited
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Yeah. New system is the sux0r IMO. Nerfed potion crafting and only made the leap between it and wand crafting even larger.
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I do agree that the previous potion brewing system was better. Not because of the loss of profitability on some spells but because recipes are so rare and they can be rather buggy if found on quests (Blur for example). Plus its hard to explain IC to warriors that the recipe they gave you will only make a limited number of potions before it magically changes.
On one Grey Circle event my Ilmatari Cleric created dozens of clarity potions to protect all of the guards and Iron Anvil dwarves from a powerful Mind Flayers attacks. I am planning my first big expedition to some tunnels where mind flayers have a tendency to show up. In this case though I don't have that option. Even though I would like to use my potion brewing to support allies or to pursue goals the lack of recipes holds me back. Its one of those things a wizard can do to be persuaded to help the pc wizard with his or her strange or odd ball experiments.
Also, a small note. Potion brewing is not a very profitable venture. Ithilwen earns fairly little from it. She earns more from wands but they are infrequent purchases. The only reason a character would resort to it is to help fund expensive activities or to aide their allies. If it is the whole point of your character you wont have any fun with it. You just dont have the population for a Fizzlebrinn Dazzledodger these days.
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The previous system wasn't better, but it has worked.
We need a working system with more recipes, with more variation in effects. I'd have a few ideas on multi-effect potions…I'd consider changing recipes available in shops to be more costly and put a lot of recipes with like 10 charges on quests which produce cheaper potions.
I think the recipe-system is much more promising then the old you-can-brew-anything one, but it sadly seems like a canceled project now. :(
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As a wizard I used to make good money on potions.
Adventurers use only 2-3 potions (mainly shield and blur, invisibility as well).Despite the interesting idea of being a merchant-potion brewer, from my experience the idea is not worth to sacrifice a feat and some RP.
Dms have not - from what I understand - supported any brewer merchant (i.e. giving them weird potion recipes such as Stoneskin, Imp Invis, Polymorph…) making the experience really not worth the time and the effort.That was one of the main reasons I left to play my wizard so I tend to agree with Eliphas on that, let's go back to the old system....
Edit: typo
While I have never played a brewer, I would typically believe that the DM's would hand out cool recipes to brewers that don't mass produce potions looking to start a business and profit. The feat could be used for other cool ideas like a battle field brewer for example. Walk around with empty vials and a ton of "reagents and ingredients" and brew potions on the spot for any ailment or need that your party has. Because yes the new system allows the use of teh feat without the need of a cauldron which is a MAJOR benefit. Simply put, I believe they want us to use the feat for what it is in order to twist it and create what we are all looking for, adventure and intrigue.
Note that I am not at all saying that you guys are in it for the profit as I haven't interacted with many of the current brewers.
So let me get this straight. Instead of -casting- a spell to get the required benefits, one should -brew- a potion of it (which requires, indeed, casting the spell), that is less effective, and costs about the same amount of coin than if you had bought one from the NPCs?
-Edited
That's exactly what I'm saying.
I would rather enjoy travelling with a character that takes the time to rp the brewing of a potion (adding ingredients, mixing, heating, stirring, etc.) rather then just casting a spell on a bottle in mass production.
In addition, said PC alchemist, could walk around with a variety of potions already made and hand them out on quests if needed. A specialist in the art of brewing. A guy who has a potion for everything.
Edit:
wizards cost nothing to play and equip and very rarely get less then an equal share of the reward gold for quests even though they waste little supplies compared to other classes.As such, this reward gold could be used very easily to accomplish said goal.
Edit 2: Now I agree that more recipes should be added for this to be a bit more feasible and I of course buy potions in mass production (such as shielding) due to the price difference but I wouldn't be upset if I had to buy fully from NPCs.
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You kidding? Ever see how much a Shield potion costs at NPCs? Pretty stupid for a potion that only lasts a single encounter.
That's the only "overpriced" potion though in my opinion.
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Approx 140 coins I think for +4 AC and immunity to magic missle ??? That's a pretty powerful potion to me.
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Approx 140 coins I think for +4 AC and
immunity to magic missle ??? That's a pretty powerful potion to me.That costs 50 coins from a PC brewer and 25 from a wand. I guess that if I make a Pc brewer that sells shield potions (that grants you +4 ac and immunity from mm) at 100 lyons (30% less than the NPC) I will probably sell a couple a week if I am lucky.
Edit:
oh, I also forgot to add the powerful cure serious potion that costs what around 60 lyons and can help you avoid death! That is pretty powerful potion too, is two circles higher and costs less than 50% than the shield potion.
There is no relationship between usefulness of a potion (spell) and the correspondant price. Price is there because DMs have set it there, unless I am broadly mistaken. -
You guys are going off track.
While I have never played a brewer, I would typically believe that the DM's would hand out cool recipes to brewers that don't mass produce potions looking to start a business and profit. The feat could be used for other cool ideas like a battle field brewer for example. Walk around with empty vials and a ton of "reagents and ingredients" and brew potions on the spot for any ailment or need that your party has. Because yes the new system allows the use of teh feat without the need of a cauldron which is a MAJOR benefit. Simply put, I believe they want us to use the feat for what it is in order to twist it and create what we are all looking for, adventure and intrigue.
Note that I am not at all saying that you guys are in it for the profit as I haven't interacted with many of the current brewers.
This was not what I was saying at all. I say the new system is great because of all that. What Im saying is that its been months, and this system is going nowhere/no being worked on. Theres too few recipes, half of which cost more than NPC"s to make. It just feel like its going anywhere, so any benefit its suppose to give is moot - simply because of the three points I mentioned earlier and thats why I think the old one should come back, because this one is not going anywhere and making the feat, at this time, useless.
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Mostly since the DM who started it disappeared and none of the rest of us really thought about it.
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As a player of another divine caster with the brew potion feat, I agree with Eliphas that we should probably go back to the previous potion brewing system, at least until the current system is actually useful.
At the moment the potion brewing feat for a divine caster is even worse than their scroll-scribing feat… At least for wizards there seem to be some sell-able potions, for priests it just isn't worth the XP+gold cost (factoring in the cost of the recipe and the bottle, you'll need to make a lot of potions to break even) to not just buy healing potions from an NPC or gather them from Monsters.
I don't think it would even be necessary to remove the current system, as you can still cast spells on bottles, so it could be kept in place and worked on/tested with while still making it possible for characters to store some of their excess spells to prepare potions for the rarer 'emergencies' when they are out of the needed spell, or find themselves in a situation their usual spell selection won't get them out of, by using the cauldrons.
P.
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Could someone perhaps change 3 lines in the scripts? I mean the costs of healing potions. People would need to rebuy their recipes but it would help them sell some potions, and it's quick enough to do, as far as I understand.