What makes a player/faction successful?
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I was sitting thinking to myself about Arabel and how to make the most out of playing it. I decided to pose this question to players and DMs alike to help myself and others better understand how to make a bigger impact. This is not meant to call anyone out, but merely to point out where confusion lies and promote more understanding. Now, on with the thread:
I have varying degrees of success on CoA. I've had moments where I wish I could do more and get frustrated things don't turn out as I expected. Let me explain some examples.
I played Alora Freeman as my first real character on CoA. Despite that she never got above lvl 6, I found her to be a great success. What made her so successful? I think this had more to do with circumstance. I happened to make the right kind of character at the right time that imediately launched me into a deeper plot within the server. I had some great character involvements and other sub plots I got involved in for friends.
When I played Clark, he was VERY successful at getting what he wanted done. How? I think this was more due to DM attention. I went through things with Clark honestly haphazardly. None of my other characters would dream of going to chit chat with a red dragon, more or less survive it. What made this character so interesting to the DMs? Was it because he was a great antagonist? That he wasn't afraid to try something really dangerous?
Now on the other end of the spectrum, I'd say my character Lia was not a very good success. This is mainly because I went into the character with a goal to change the server. I worked extremely hard on getting involved where I could and trying to keep things together and moving forward. This made me very frustrated as to me it seemed that hard work was not enough for success. What was missing? I think perhaps my goal was too high. Interest was lacking. Too much infighting. Not enough dedication on my part.
I'd like to hear more from you. What experiences have you had that you felt were successful? What exactly is success, and what are the traits that let you know you've achieved it? What are some common traits that lead to success? In the end I hope that this will serve everyone in making a more enjoyable experience.
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To me, it's how much I personally enjoy playing the character. It's the outcome of many factors summed up together.
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How much you enjoy a character is important, but here's what's interesting. I enjoyed play Lia MOST despite she was, imo, the LEAST successfull. By success I mean reaching your character/player goals.
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Figure out what success means to you before you figure out how to go get it.
You want to have fun? Just do that, do whatever fun is for you as long as you follow the rules. Make a character who can leap in on current plots, or a long term character who'll be around for awhile, or a guy who just likes to go out and kill monsters on quests.
You want to resolve DM plots, take risks and show initiative. Tell DMs in the DM channel, IRC, or forums what you want to try to accomplish. Have ideas for pushing plots forward and don't wait for DMs to run events linked to that plot, figure out what you can do to run events either with PCs or with DMs and PCs to get things going.
You want to impact and change things on the server, talk to DMs and share your plans and goals, be prepared to be flexible with them, involve lots of other players in whatever you are trying to achieve, forgo standard rewards like loot and treasure for favors from NPCs or PCs, be prepared to spend weeks working toward the goal.
Its surely possible to get success on all those levels, but it takes flexibility and understanding exactly what you want to accomplish and then communicating your plans with the players and DMs who can help make it happen.
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The best way to succeed as a player faction is to be actively going out and doing things. Do interesting things in interesting places for IC reasons and you'll get things done and the DMs will be happy to provide you with entertaining and unique adventures and the opportunity to "change the server".
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The best way to succeed as a player faction is to be actively going out and doing things. Do interesting things in interesting places for IC reasons and you'll get things done and the DMs will be happy to provide you with entertaining and unique adventures and the opportunity to "change the server".
I don't feel like this is always true. I think those that don't do anything interesting and market sit won't get anything done, but just because you are out doing something actively does not mean it will happen.
I can go out into the vast swamps with a party looking for treasure quite regularly and never find anything. Doesn't interest play a role in this?
I can attempt to recon the Shadovar with a group, but that does not mean I will actually run into anything. Doesn't chance play a role in this?
I can have all the best ideas for what to do, but unless I have others with me it will likely flop. Doesn't character involvement play a role in this?
These are all just examples, but hopefully I made my point tactfully.
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I think that would be what Camazotz meant in "Interesting".
For example, going out to search for "treasure" everyday is quite vague. What does "treasure" even mean?
Instead, if you say you're going to search for the firebolt racing broom to steal an egg from Orthokentvivex's nest, and use that egg in a ritual to turn your faction members into half dragons; Well, that's going somewhere. As you say, it doesn't mean it'll necessarily generate interest; But it definitely has more chances to do so than something totally vague.
From what I've learnt so far, it's all about coming up with an arc; an over-arching story for your faction, and most importantly, communicating what exactly you're going to do and why you're going to do it, then taking people out on adventures to actually do them. If the DMs are aware of why you're heading into the underdark everyday, and that you're doing it with dozens of people, it's just increased your chances that something might happen. The key point here would be consistency. If you're doing it everyday for a while, you're going to get noticed. Taking out one expedition every six weeks doesn't show that you're really interested in pursuing it.
Attracting player interest is something totally in your hands. Even DM factions have stayed empty; They come with a bunch of perks, but didn't turn out interesting to players. Selling an idea to others, getting them excited about what you're doing is certainly a major point. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's any one way to do this. It's a totally subjective thing.
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It has been said over and over again, but really. After Relonor responds to one of these threads, further discussion is unnecessary.
J/k, continue.
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Or you could go the Olouth way. Piss people off! Conflict is awesome!
That said, I think what helps succes is to define it. Is succes winning, or is it having fun, or most importantly, helping others have fun?
I learned from my last char especially, that succes doesnt mean winning. Sure, winning is fun. Yet, someone has to lose. And if you feel as a failure for going up against dm factions, or other pc factions with more time, more people, and higher levels and therefore more possibilities to go where your lvl 3 wizard with 9 hp cannot, and then losing, then you are thinking about it all wrong.
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@O'louth:
That said, I think what helps succes is to define it. Is succes winning, or is it having fun, or most importantly, helping others have fun?
I learned from my last char especially, that succes doesnt mean winning. Sure, winning is fun. Yet, someone has to lose.
I heartily agree. Olouth led an awsome faction in House Obarstal that was totally successful, yet won just about bugger all. We had fun. We pissed off a lot of enemies, who beat us! I hope that through this, we involved more people who had to compete with us for the prize of winning.
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I think perhaps I have missed the mark in explaining my thoughts. By success, I do not mean enjoyment of a character. My favorite character I've played I've mentioned I felt was the least successful. By success, I mean reaching your goals. Now if your goals are simple, then achieving them should be alot easier. If your goals are more complex, obviously it's going to be a pain to achieve them. I've seen alot of helpful advice, but I'd like to see more examples.
What characters have you had that met some rather outstanding goals?
What characters have you had that achieved something really grand, weather they were part of your goals or not?
Is there anything common in what you've done with your greatest characters?
How did you do it?My thoughts are if we can better understand what works and what doesn't that modelling successful behavior will become possible.
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''Success'' on CoA isn't about winning or reaching your goals (not in my book anyway), it's about making the server interesting for everyone who's involved with you.
If you can do that, regardless of how you do it inside the rules and in the spirit of the server, then you're a success.
I've had characters who I'd class as a success but haven't reached any of the goals I have set for them. There is a difference between a SUCCESS and being SUCCESSFUL.
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What characters have you had that met some rather outstanding goals?
The best example I can give was my last character; Qu'Larq. He built a town in the middle of the helmlands.Is there anything common in what you've done with your greatest characters?
The most common trait that people who get things done are that they involve others. Most of the time it's done through the creation of a PC faction, but there are some exceptions. It's important to know that by "involving others" I don't mean that you're supposed to have deligate your tasks to everyone until you're left with nothing to do yourself, I had thought that at one point in time, but it's important that you yourself actively go out with the people who support you and try and accomplish things.Once you've got some people dedicated to helping you or your cause you go out and try actively doing things related to your cause in interesting places.
How did you do it?
Over the course of many months I established a large group of characters that followed my character, got powerful individuals to agree to invest their factions/personal resources into helping, went out and looked for resources/magical artifacts/people who could help rebuild Kilgrave. We searched the underdark, the Haunted Halls, the Vast Swamps. Even if we never found what we were looking for alot of the time we'd end up finding Hedge Magic reagents.We got alot of our resources by participating in plots and aiding other factions. We helped the Sheriffs kill Zxhoo in exchange for the Royal Armbands of Thunderholme from Zxhoo's horde which got New Kilgrave the aid of Thunderholme in rebuilding.
We got lumber after requesting that all payment at the end of a big DM event we participated in be used to purchase lumber for our town, rather than be given to our group.
Stone came when we saved deep gnomes from gnoll attacks and requested shipments of stone as our reward.
We got protection against invasion by making a deal with the Zhentarim, we help them recover Tyr's Justice and undo the curse on the East Way and New Kilgrave becomes a territory in the Zhentarim Empire with Qu'Larq as a Zhentarim Lord in charge of the Helmlands.
It's all about Adventure and Intrigue, that's what it boils down to and always has. If you're out doing interesting things DMs will take notice and give you chances to get rewards and further your goals for involving others. If your concept is intriguing to others and involves not only your own group but people outside your own faction (such as other factions) then not only will DMs take notice but PCs will take notice and often times PCs who are influential or in influential factions can get alot done too.
I think I've started to ramble alot, but if you're out in the world involving people in grand adventures without constant DM oversight good things will happen.
I hope this helps someone.
I'm going back to class!
See you in the Summer. -
''Success'' on CoA isn't about winning or reaching your goals (not in my book anyway), it's about making the server interesting for everyone who's involved with you.
If you can do that, regardless of how you do it inside the rules and in the spirit of the server, then you're a success.
I've had characters who I'd class as a success but haven't reached any of the goals I have set for them. There is a difference between a SUCCESS and being SUCCESSFUL.
I like Cake, and I approve!