How to treat monster races on CoA?
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Simple question.
How would your character react to a monster race demonic,orc,kobold etc..
Im asking as a few years ago monsters were treated as monsters basicly you killed them if that darkskinned elf turned out to be a drow when you got it's helm off you cut into little pieces,That creature with horns and green skin was what it looked like it was a demon and you killed it.
Also dm's would have the guards react and kill such monsters on sight if they wern't disguised.So what im after is what do the player base think should such creatures be treated as monsters and killed on sight or held hands with and taken on windy walks?
My personal view is if your character would kill such creatures outside the city gates then you shouldn't be holding hands inside the city. -
If you're speaking of character PCs, that would be pretty subjective to the character in question. Adventurers tend to be more broad minded (in general) because they see a lot of things most people don't. There's no real one answer to how anyone 'should' act. Sure, we kill lizards and tieflings in quests…but we also kill human beings in quests, don't we? Some adventurers might not view the difference between races, simply consider any being as either 'hostile' or 'not hostile' in regards to personal views on them, which is perfectly reasonable. Like I said, it's very subjective to the character in question.
In my opinion, the NPC commoner populace would react to a monster race in pretty much the way you expect. People tend to mistrust things that are different. Tieflings, half orcs or even Aasimar would likely be shunned by most at best, or end up lynched.
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Maybe I am missing the point of the thread, but the only "monster race" I have seen, outside of kobolds, was ak the lizard man. I think if an actual orc/demon/dragon or whatever was found, it would be killed. But seeing as there aren't really any demons/orc/goblins running around the city, I don't see how this is an issue.
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I would normally kill them on sight, no discussion, unless they offer a very good reason to be kept alive. The thrill of being kill on sight (without any so-called "roleplay") is exactly what makes monster races so special and challenging to play. You have to work awfully hard to make so-called allies, and even then, as a real, evil monster, you will never know true alliances or friendship.
If I played a monster, I'd also wish to be attacked on sight (subdual, to give a chance to plead, if that is IC for the attacker.).
That said, this does in no way reflect the climate of CoA, nor should it be done here. CoA stresses non-violent conflict and a player's freedom to not die (which I may not agree with fully) and as such, a good or appropriate reaction would certainly be suspicion, anger and even outright hatred if IC without resorting to PVP.
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I would personally look at the alignment of the character being played before reacting..a Nuetral good will react differently vs a Chaotic Good or a Lawful good.
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Generally speaking, characters on CoA (and possibly the NPC populace) are courteously accepting of non-goodly races. In my years, I've never seen much open hostility towards races like tieflings, half-orcs/ogres or even drow and duergar, actually played out.
Don't know what the official word is on it, but I haven't really seen anything done about it in the past.
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I see this white/blue skinned horned white frost demon woman walking around town, chilling with the red hart. Macking out and relaxing all cool, I think I am the only one who gets in their face waving a torch. The red harts tell me to back off, but I say DEEEMON.
Its kind of ridiculous.
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What Relonor said.
And no, I don't think it's ridiculous at all. There is no "right" way to play your character, guys, except for following the basic rules of not metagaming and not griefing.
People here sometimes look at a certain character or their reaction and brand that character/player as lame OOCly. It's an elitist point of view.
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I see this white/blue skinned horned white frost demon woman walking around town, chilling with the red hart. Macking out and relaxing all cool, I think I am the only one who gets in their face waving a torch. The red harts tell me to back off, but I say DEEEMON.
Its kind of ridiculous.
No personal attacks please and wern't the only one i know at least one other that did somthing similar.
The question isn't about any one character but about such creatures and monsters in general. -
They hang with her and not Zhents! weird fascists they are.
But seriously, many of these monster races are now protected by law, so, its a bit different.
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Yeah, when I started here I asked myself on several counts how close this is getting to Amia. I'm all for courtesy, but courtesy is OOC. That so many regular people and adventurers who spend their lives and earn their livelihood by killing these types of things actually defend the monstrous creatures is beyond me. This at a time when all the neighboring towns are being razed and destroyed by monstrous groups; I feel it breaks the fourth wall completely for people to invoke what comes down to some kind of "sacredness of life" or "racism" in these cases.
That said, I think the immersion-breaking factor is those characters with shallow, near Judeo-Christian points of view about everything. Not shallow because the player is in real life, but because the character is too close to real-life morals and is someone you'd meet in queue at a grocery store more than in a FR setting.
Just what I think, anyway.
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Like people have said, you just need to be careful with it. It's true that most folks would (or perhaps should) have an adverse reaction to seeing a demon bobbing around town cracking wise and generally schmoozing. You really need to take a long look at your characters background and what they've been subject to in their lives, plus current events, to find the answer to how they should act. On the other hand you do need to have OOC consideration for the player playing the demon. As with most fringe PvP situations, it's a very fine line to walk.
It's often true that real life morality tends to leak into the game, it's kind of impossible for it not to, however it's ironic (and maybe even a good way to develop a character) that a number of religious people who promote "goodly" behavior tend to be extreme racists, sexists, etc by the same token.
It's a kind of sociopathic duplicity that might make a character interesting and reasonably flawed. Openly congenial to a monster (or outsider) and secretly malicious towards them without perhaps seeing the discrepancy in their behavior, not even trying to merely deceive the monster in question.
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people who promote "goodly" behavior tend to be extreme racists, sexists, etc by the same token
It's not really ironic. Racism is a real-life term and even then, only considered goodly by part of the world (but that's beside the point altogether). In FR, there is no United Nations or Martin Luther King Jr. It's not evil to oppose a creature solely for its race in a world where the type of ceature you are determines how you act (rather than social conditioning); an imp raised by human parents will still want to see people suffer.
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An Imp, however, is a magical creature with infernal ties.. thereby negating your argument in reference to most " monster PCs " , as it has build-in coding to do evil.
An orc, however.. is an orc.. not magical ( unless you prescribe to the Tolkien version of magical creation of them )
Thereby able to be taught right from wrong, and conditioned to fit into society.
Same with any of the humanoid races… considering there is a whole god devoted to fitting in, Meriandor ( sp? ) it makes sense that you would see such, and have people recognize some as acceptable. Especially if they outwardly displayed affectations of said deity.
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I don't know why anyone bothers talking after Relonor.
You can't follow an act like that. -
An Imp, however, is a magical creature with infernal ties.. thereby negating your argument in reference to most " monster PCs " , as it has build-in coding to do evil.
An orc, however.. is an orc.. not magical ( unless you prescribe to the Tolkien version of magical creation of them )
Thereby able to be taught right from wrong, and conditioned to fit into society.
Same with any of the humanoid races… considering there is a whole god devoted to fitting in, Meriandor ( sp? ) it makes sense that you would see such, and have people recognize some as acceptable. Especially if they outwardly displayed affectations of said deity.
Keep in mind, however, that good, evil, law and chaos, unlike the real world, are absolute and tangible concepts in the setting.
So yes, unlike real life, it's very possible for a 'race' to be 'evil'. Orcs, goblins, drow, gnolls etc. are evil as a race.
(Yes, I know Drizzt Do'Urden, don't throw him at my face now, he's like ONE drow. :wink: )
This has nothing to do with upbringing. The RL 'Nature vs nurture' debate, as far as I can see, doesn't apply to the FR. Orcs and goblinoids are born evil. Drizzt, he was just a freak. (Before Eilistraee came around and messed up the whole thing.)
In other words, this orc might be farming, minding his own business, milking cows, not hurting anyone at all; But if a paladin of Moradin happened on the scene, and killed the orc remorselessly, the paladin probably wouldn't get a SINGLE chaos or evil point. Because orcs are evil, and killing evil would be construed as a good act in the cosmic scale.
(I might be wrong here, no doubt someone will correct it if so)
After all, if evil were relative, protection from alignment would be pretty useless.
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I've seen this problem come up with kobolds alot, due to a certain quest.
Just because they are children dont mean they aint evil if you ask me. Little buggers are plotting something.
Fair few characters have had a go at a fair few of my characters for stabbing the little evil blighters in the face many times in the past though. Even a gnome once! and a dwarf several times.
Crazy times.
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I think some of us are missing the point of this thread… it wasn't meant to be asking how you think people should act but how you're character would act...
I myself would stab, kill and slaughter all monster races I met outside the city without a reason that I would have to kill say... a human. just like I would an NPC spawn, because the player is playing one of those -monsters- just because this one can talk back without the aid of a DM doesn't change what they're playing is in fact a monster. The reason it doesn't happen to PCs is because people oocly know it's another player and they think it's unfair.
Theres my view on monster races and my reason. Oh and before I forget and the thing about a paladin killing what some would class as a "peaceful" orc is perfectly fine... can actually say it's their job.
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Some of the monster races are now protected by law though, so, it's a different kettle of fish. I guess if your character doesn't care about the laws one bit, they might kill on sight though yeah. But they might get a capital charge against them for it.
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the thing about arabel law is that it only applies if they can shoot a bow at you from the walls being a free state in the middle of a bigger and more powerful nation doesn't give you insentive to obay their laws more than your own moral code. and my character is actually lawful but he's a dwarf he doesn't care for human laws only his own drawven laws and his own code… a paladin doesn't have to obay the cities laws before his god's or even his own paladin code.