Spellcasters, spell selections and party approvals !
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Good Wizardy in my book is all about the mystery and arrogance (or absentmindedness!) in the Forgotten Realms, not about OOC effectiveness.
But I meant good wizardry in an entirely mechanical sense. Also, not all good wizards are arrogant/absentminded.
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You what? You want to know which spells I can cast? You want to tell -me- a wizard, who delve in mind devouring pools of knowledge how to use the Art?
You want to teach me when I should call for celestial aid? You want to tell me when it is proper to shield your mind? Do you think I am unable to protect your weak miserable life? laughs
Do I tell you when to swing your blade? How high to raise your shield? When to use your hammer?
Be sure warrior, that you will receive the aid of the Art whenever -I- will see it proper and our enemies will receive the wrath of the Weave when -I- will decide.
Of course you can suggest the proper course of action before the battle ensues, after all you are the master tactician. And be sure to know the difference between a proper suggestion and an order.
Now let's proceed, tinhead, otherwise I'll roast you in your armor! taps his staff on the back of the warrior's helmet
Yup!
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I've had someone ask Raslyn to protect their mind on a certain quest -
She just gave him a glare and said "do I look like a bookmage to you?" and suggested he get a helm or something.As Velve said, as a sorc our spell choices are limited -
But a fun thing: I leveled during a quest yesterday, then had the chance to cast a new spell – and Raslyn was quite surprised and said "I did not know I could do that."
But to the original question, from an IC perspective for a mage to call out all they have in their spellbook just irritates Raslyn to no end. From an OOC perspective it seems a bit... I dont want to use the word "metagaming," but surely at least it seems a bit too convenient.
Worse though is when people start "spell begging" and demanding that the mage in the group buff them.
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@Rushers:
Will complain for the wizard to hurry up to go on an easy scripted quest (Until they find out the party has no healing against lumberjacks because they didn't talk to each other and die like lemmings.), ignore them completely if they try to get relevant information, or if they fail to guess correctly a spell selection.
"BAD WIZARD YOU ARE SLOW!"@Buff:
Will complain that the wizard is being selfish if they don't get buffs.
"BAD WIZARD YOU ARE KILLING THINGS WHILE I DON'T HAVE AN EXTRA +1 AB!"@No:
Will complain if you have a certain intelligible spell selection (likely offensive) and ask you not to do it even though you are giving them the appropriate protections. Often are fighters getting dazed more by a stinking cloud/cloud of bewilderment than enemy NPCs when they have endurance and ironguts on them. Of course there is some hypocracy to it since people might be perfectly fine taking a fireball to the face with Protection from Elements if placed well enough. Of course they are going to say not to do it after you prepared
"BAD WIZARD YOU WILL HURT US MORE THAN THEM!"@Doin':
Will tell you what the relevant information in a few seconds so you can prepare accordingly to what you expect. In more organized and formal groups this might have some standard plan according to the party. This is a good balance between NOM NOM NOM powerquesting with boring standardized load out or worse and not going in blind ICly.
@I:
A good example of this is the pacifist buffbot that has a mostly standard loadout most of the time for buffs or the all offensive wizard. Less hassle for the more anxious groups that don't care or depend on you as a contributor
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The last wizad I played wasn't much of a buffer mage, and as part of his arrogance, I made a point people never knowing how many, or wich, spells I had. Got alot of whining about it to begin with, but after a couple of instances where I could step up with my hoarded spells and turn the tide completely, people quieted down :P All in all, he very rarely divulged the contents of his spellbook. He was fun to play.
Currently, I play a melee character. Part of his character is that he knows very little about magic, so I find it only reasonable that he'll not have much to say about magic in general. When it comes to spells on quests, it might be a result of him usually questing with the people he's teamed up with, but I tend to, and enjoy to, go at it assuming the wizard knows best what to cast and when.
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I surpose alot of it depends on the wizards mindset. My current wizard typicaly drop the odd comment about her spell selection but won't really go into masive detail unless really pushed. She also been known to take out her temper on people who don't pay attention to her "tatical surgestions" with poorly aimed burning hands, but shes just that kind of person.
:wink:
However as a player it bothers me ever so slightly when people playing none arcanest start naming spells by there exact name however, especialy when there the less common spells.Stoneskin is ok.
fireball is ok.Enervation, not really and Balagarn's iron horn is way out.
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my wizard had the same spell selection almost always, so those who travelled with him knew what to expect.
I had a spare slot at level 3 and at level 5 i think that i was willing to accept requests for, if from regular partners. (marin asking for cats grace for eg)
Knowing that the mage is competent and dependable is the most important, rather than knowing that they have any specific spells. After all if you all fail then they are toast too, so it is in thier interests that the group functions effectively.
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My elven wizard only used illusion spells and maybe 3 or 4 buffs.I always kept the same set of spells with just a few alterations if he was told what to expect.
As to the OP.
Mystery everytime don't think ive ever told anyone icly what spells i had ready other than a very vague statement like yes i have some protections for you ..or yes i have some summon spells. -
SInce the server is party based. Wizards for the most part take a support role and should almost always know and/or ask the part of the party that will do the majority of the fighting what they prefer. It makes sense both OOC and while IC.
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@Alice:
I surpose alot of it depends on the wizards mindset. My current wizard typicaly drop the odd comment about her spell selection but won't really go into masive detail unless really pushed. She also been known to take out her temper on people who don't pay attention to her "tatical surgestions" with poorly aimed burning hands, but shes just that kind of person.
:wink:
However as a player it bothers me ever so slightly when people playing none arcanest start naming spells by there exact name however, especialy when there the less common spells.Stoneskin is ok.
fireball is ok.Enervation, not really and Balagarn's iron horn is way out.
One thing. I don't see why Fighters wouldn't know anything about magics used in 'Fights' and Wizard would know about armours, siege engines, weapons and all other things that is military knowledge…
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One thing. I don't see why Fighters wouldn't know anything about magics used in 'Fights' and Wizard would know about armours, siege engines, weapons and all other things that is military knowledge…
Most people have no clue about the pros and cons of two-cycle vs four-cycle, sterling vs reciprocating, or of diesel vs gas.
They simply pull up to the pump, put the appropriate fuel in, and push down on the pedal when they're done.
Why would a fighter know anything about spells other than the most common, and what a wizard has told him in the moment, such as "You are fireproof", or that they feel stronger?
Got Spellcraft ? -
Uh? What are you talking about? I'm not talking about ''most people''.
I'm talking about professional soldiers. To go with your exemple, I'm sure professional car racers know the difference between diesel and gas and the other things you mentioned and they're not engineers.
If you're going to say we need pts in spellcraft to call a fireball a fireball, then I think maybe you need to take a fighter level to call a longsword a longsword…
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Wizards spend time on books. They have knowledge.
Knowing about how a sword works is easy.
Raise, lower, hit, cut. Rinse and repeat.
Knowing how to evocate magical fire from your fingertips… well, err...
chants some words doesn't work! damn!
Wiggles finger Doesnt' work, damn! -
If you're going to say we need pts in spellcraft to call a fireball a fireball, then I think maybe you need to take a fighter level to call a longsword a longsword…
That's a bad example. Fighters wouldn't know, for instance, to be like, "Alright, I want you to cast Bull's Strength, Endurance, and Greater Magic Weapon on me."'
The exact names of spells are usually unbeknownst to the fighters. Normally they'd be like, "I want you to make me a lot stronger in the arms and body, and to make my weapon hurt more."
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The exact names of spells are usually unbeknownst to the fighters. Normally they'd be like, "I want you to make me a lot stronger in the arms and body, and to make my weapon hurt more."
Luckly most smart people send their menu of spells in tells.
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If a fighter hears my wizard mention a spell called 'Bullstrength' (and I find myself discussing spells aloud in character often) I will forgive him for guessing that its purpose might be to make him stronger, then maybe even asking for it by name rather than just saying make me stronger.
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Well Fargle, like I said… I disagree. I think if a wizard knows the names of swords and armours, then the fighters should know the names of spells that are cast in 'fights'.
I mean, the Marines are not experts on planes, but I'm sure they know how they are called when they fly over their heads to go bombard some city... It's the way I see it, I'm a pro, a soldier who fought many times and was targeted with all kinds of spells. I imagine, while I may not know how they are casted, the components needed or the formulae or whatever, I know how to call a ''Fireball''.
You really want professional fighters to start calling fireballs ''a magic blasting sphere of flame?''
Until a DM tell me my professional fighter who study war and work in war environements that he knows nothing, not even the name of that Fireball or Bull's Strength, I'll keep playing like that. It's not like I'm asking fighters to scribe scrolls or decypher magical scripts... My first fighter had maxed his Spellcraft because I wanted him to know much more than the names of spells.
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I disagree there with your first paragraph.
You're not thinking of INT score or Lore points, just of profession. Now wizards, being scholarly and study-ly as they are, would have likely happened upon armor types and spells to supplement them in books.
Fighters, on the other hand, know little other than what protects them well and what doesn't.
And Marines know what the planes are called because they have studied or looked into it. Not because of knowledge they'd have been previously given. (EDIT: or a pilot/engineer/someone else experienced would have told them.)
It's not like fighters can just say to wizards: "Hey, cast some Tasha's Hideous Laughter", since they haven't studied the book that the spell originates from. That's why people with low spellcraft see spells as "unknown spells" in the toolbar.
And as for your diesel/gas metaphor: standard people know which one should go in their vehicle, and racers know more about it because they've studied it.
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Distinguishing items fall into Lore cathegory.
Distinguishing spells falls into Spellcraft cathegory.
Also, a warrior would hardly know a spell name other than obvious one like Fireball (it is a ball of fire) he would not know Mestyl's Acid Breath.
As for wizards and the way they operate… there are wizards and wizards... each has their own ways to act, since it is a very broad class...
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There is a built in system in the game to determine if your character knows what spell is being cast or not. Of course, sometimes the effect of spells are obvious.
"He torched the area with this massive ball of fire."
"You mean he cast FireBall?"
"Sounds about right!"Some are less commonly known.
"He reached out, touched me, and I couldn't move."
IMO, if a fighter type, or group of fighter types want to start cataloguing spell names and their effects - that would be an interesting resources in some cases.