THIS IS NOT A PVP SUX POST!!!!
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There, got your attention. What this is is an attempt for me to make it fun for me,and by extension, the folks who are likely to want to PvP my characters.
PvP Happens I -get- that. part of the story. great. fine bring it on.Some folks want me to portray fear when i've just got the snot beat out of me…
I've explained elsewhere why my characters won't, or HAVEN'T in the past.
So, PvP triggers shit that i thought I was over. guess not. shrugs
So, impasse. Get beat down, fear response on my side, since there is nothing really wrong with ME, is to lash out. I can't get back at the people who, in MY mind, are the same bullies I dealt with in grade and high school. I know its not, I know its all in fun. I know it in the rational part of my brain. But the part of me that says Holy F&*^ I'm gonna die I better run, fight back lash out is the part that's in control. (Echo, you could probably write a book on me :-) ) Just these words "I thought we were here for gems, and something else" Bam, drop party, set to hostile, and we're off.All the old crap came flooding in again. and I reacted. OOC tels and IC refusing to shut up and give in.
SO, what have I learned about this self examination of PvP that I have been involved in and either enjoyed or hated.
Letting me know OOC that I am about to be beat up and robbed would go a long way to keeping me calm.
I am never going ot be a pvp powerhouse.
So, here's the deal.With time to be prepared for the gank squad, I can play afraid. I can show fear.
But if you just gank me out of the blue, my anti bully defenses are going to pop into play and it wont be fun for anyone. -
I personally always try and make it obvious if I am going to attack someone, hostile a good time before, use verbal showdowns etc… But I rarely send tells saying "PvP is about to happen". I always make it plenty obvious IC because that is where I like things to stay... IC. At the end of the day you just have to tell yourself it is only a video game, and these lash outs that occur IC tend to take something from a single item robbery or a scar and a warning to much further looting or PvP full death, as the players PC finds it much more difficult to rationalize keeping you alive.
However if you RP Drools out blood and a weak moan escapes his lips and when they reach to steal your blade, you Pathetically grasp out trying to hold on, but with no avail, the other player is likely much more pleased with that scene and will be far more likely to do something fun for both sides with what happened, as opposed to....
F*** you, I'm going to kill you, you piece of sh**, the player is far more likely to add your entire coin purse to their bag, potions, etc. or even just say well if you're going to threaten to kill me, you're going to die. It makes it cheaper for the player you're PvPing and it results in making things worse for yourself.
Just work on trying to separate OOC from IC. The two things should never be crossed, leave your IC emotions to your IC characters.
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It's a video game. Learn to separate what happens IG from your life, and you'll find your RP improving and your ability to enjoy loosing and winning dramatically improving as well.
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I'll go as far as to say that most pvp sux.
It's such a cool and powerful story driving tool and I feel almost insulted seeing how some people use it excessively and meaninglessly just because they can. -
PvP is a part of the game. Some PCs are inherently violent. Some PCs will smack you if you talk down to them. Some PCs will want to inflict harm if you are doing something to oppose their ideology. This is a PvP server, it's all part of the game.
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Please,
I'm looking for help.
Not trying to point
Out other people's
Play styles as bad.
Or negative.Thanks
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@SpiffyHas:
Learn to separate what happens IG from your life
One of the things I have learned, over the last few years, is just how important this is! PvP encounters that involve combat are not something I seek or relish as they often end up with my character ending, which is sad. The investment I now make in CoA is towards making fun for others rather than in pursuing specific character goals. Giving pleasure to others is fun in life, achieving a goal for your character is IG. This does not mean I do not pursue character goals, but means that my enjoyment in playing does not come from achieving these goals but from the entertainment I gain and give to others in the process. I think this comes from a realisation that very few player goals ever get achieved as designed. Why seek pleasure from what is very unlikely to be achieved?
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Seek pleasure from the process of pursuing rather than the success of achieving.
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Seek pleasure from the accolades of other players as they thank you for making their time online such fun. Which of us does not like to see their name in the "Tip Of The Hat"?
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Allow your goals to shift with the needs server and other players rather than fix your goals to the detriment of the server and other players.
With this, I'm sure you'll find PvP, whether of combat or intrigue, becoming more fun as the outcome of the PvP is less important than the process of PvP. I know it has for me.
@As:
It's such a cool and powerful story driving tool and I feel almost insulted seeing how some people use it excessively and meaninglessly just because they can.
For those of you who are particularly good at the mechanics of PvP combat, perhaps you should consider, whether allowing your character to loose is better role-play than to force a win. Will loosing, without a death, enhance the server's story, or perhaps your opponent's story, or even (shock-horror!) your own character's story? Will allowing your character to fail allow you to enhance that character's tale, perhaps developing some fear, hatred, or consequence of the failure in PvP combat that can be played upon?
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Seek pleasure from the process of pursuing rather than the success of achieving.
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Seek pleasure from the accolades of other players as they thank you for making their time online such fun. Which of us does not like to see their name in the "Tip Of The Hat"?
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Allow your goals to shift with the needs server and other players rather than fix your goals to the detriment of the server and other players.
The only way to help this my friend, is to separate the IC from the OOC. It can be hard and frustrating, but at the end of the day we are all a community of friendly gamers. Give people a reason to keep you alive from fun RP when beaten, as opposed to giving people a reason to murder you due to OOC rage taking control of IC action. It will result in more fun for both sides.
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There are players who are skilled at fighting. They can take on, and take OUT, half the server, if they put their mind to it. These players face a problem when dealing with people who are PvP babies. I mean, it -is- as easy as taking candy from a baby when dealing with a significant segment of the playerbase in PvP. Its certainly not challenging. The problem is, very often the ones that can challenge them in PvP are also on their team.
Often, they are so completely unchallenged that they get bored and quit, or end up in a civil war and killing each other. This situation has gotten so common that we should give it a name. The Bored Babykillers. The solution? Professional PvPers should make sure that they aren't all on the same team. Spread out the concepts, and enjoy challenging fights, rather than walkovers. I feel that this solution is the best solution.
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I find it curious that the problem here clearly isn't the -result- of the pvp, but what happens -before-, and -how- it happens.
While I do agree that "not letting IC actions get to you OOC" would help a lot, I can also see that it's easier said than done. Everyone has their weak spots, and overcoming those is never easy. I think the server as whole could benefit a lot from being more courteous OOCly, especially when it comes to pvp.
We're all here for fun, and we're all here to enjoy the game. Take others into consideration when you play, and others will do the same for you - and the server will be a better place for all of us.
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Often, they are so completely unchallenged that they get bored and quit, or end up in a civil war and killing each other. This situation has gotten so common that we should give it a name. The Bored Babykillers. The solution? Professional PvPers should make sure that they aren't all on the same team. Spread out the concepts, and enjoy challenging fights, rather than walkovers. I feel that this solution is the best solution.
I never agree with Thune on priciple, but before I return to topic, this should be kept in mind for the PVP savy.
That said. Yes, you need to remove yourself from the game, if you cannot seperate it from your own RL. If Dobby, or Plank, or CB, or any other player was as you describe, a bully, they would not be here, they would be banned. You projecting your RL shit on them, is NOT FAIR to the people trying to tell a story. Just as you shouldnt DRIVE A CAR when emotional or drunk, never play CoA when emotionally unstable or drunk. When you press the .exe button, you should leave all that is the world behind you. Put on some good music, and dive into a world where nothing else has relevance. Just as someone should not log unto CoA to get back at life, by lashing out on others by bullying, neither should you force upon others your emotional insecurities.
Personally, I have used CoA for almost 11 years now, to escape the real world. Bad exams, a crappy date, deaths in the family, depression, vanishes for a short time, when I get to play a curious little halfling warrior, seeking riches and fame. When I log out after a few hours, I have gained some emotional distance to whatever troubled me in RL, making it easier to analyze, to deal with, and to fix or move on from.
My best advise? On CoA, because the strong kids in the playground arent bullies, you can have them teach you how to fight back. Ask Dobby to host an arena server and give you a few pointers. Ask CBs weaponmaster to teach your warrior how to battle IC. Become Lizardmans secret account wizards' apprentice, learn from him how to use spells effectively to achieve your goals. Such can be achieved by being a stellar and friendly player towards these people.
As to what not to do? ICly, show fear. It is rewarding, because your character seems to come to life. I got exp the other day, because my character dropped her sword due to trembling hands, from facing a beserker. And it is far more rewarding OOCly, than trying to get back at people from your days in highschool who used to hold you down or beat you. Such emotional scarring is something you deal with with a Phychologist, it is NOT something you should implant on your characters when it makes zero sense.
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It sounds to me like you enjoyed PvP where (1) there was adequate build up, and (2) you felt like you at least had a chance to win, or felt like you accomplished something in losing.
(1) is not in your control.
(2) is somewhat in your control. Feeling like you accomlished something is 50/50 on you and on the guy who defeated you. You get to answer the question - What did my character learn from it and what will they do going forward? Winner, what fun did you provide your loser? A plot hook? An item? Even just respect?
My general advice regarding PvP is this.
If you find youself losing most of your PvPs, you need to try to learn to get better at it. Shunning PvP doesn't make you a good player. Conversely, if you find youself winning most of your PvPs (or only losing to other powerhouses), you probably need to consider doing something differently as well. It makes your PC dull, and discourages people from interacting with you. You cannot win CoA through PvP, and you never will be able to. Ideally all PCs should be able to win some and lose some as part of their story.
There is no one piece of advice to give players regarding pvp - Ultimately most people should be trying to reach the middle ground. Non-PvPers should learn to enjoy some pvp and learn how to do it. PvP gurus need to learn to tone it down and make it enjoyable for others. It's really that simple.
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I should possibly point out that I don't believe that anyone here is a bully. That's me saying that, the rational (?) person that knows this is just a game.
Thank you all for the responses. More would be welcome.
I've sent CB a PM re: Training. Awaiting a response. Dobby, if You've time or the inclination,
I'd appreciate the help. -
I have no idea how to set up/host a server, but I'm always available on IRC for tips on building PCs, tips on what you want to use as a PC and how to build on your strengths, tips on what will keep you alive, etc… Also if anyone else hosted an Arena Server I'd be happy to show some stuff.
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I can host, if the TZ suits, and I'd always benefit from PvP Mechanics coaching!
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After Dobby gave me some tips, my chances of survival went up 150%. Will recommend.
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Hit me up on irc or if someone is willing to host an arena server with coa's level range, no problem.
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Survival tip #1. Have more consumables than the other guy… seriously this is what the last 20 PvP's I've been part of have come down to. I've been on the winning side simply because the other side was VASTLY more powerful than me but I had more consumables than them and vise versa... had people 2-3 levels below me wax me because they caught me unprepared. Be a boyscout, always be prepared and know when it's time to run. In real life, If I have a criminal at gun point and he suddenly pulls out a machine gun, I'm falling back and calling backup. My "Code" says I need to apprehend or eliminate the threat but my RL wisdom score tells me my side arm vs their machine gun is not a good idea.
PvP Survival comes down to knowing your limits. People keep playing paladins as Lawful Stupid. Paladins have WISDOM as a primary trait, that means a paladin knows he has to make the choice of dying for his code or living to make his code happen sometimes. He knows he isn't going to be able to slaughter a Balor in single combat. If he dies at that point, it is because he CHOOSE to die. If your character sucks at open conflict, you're going to have to find another way to win. I.E. No one EVER caught Cyrton in an open PvP fight. The two times he was caught it was with his pants down. The agents knew if they went open PvP on him, they'd lose him and never catch him so they lured him into a trap. His ultimate death was at the hands of an invisible ganker during his villain speech with the agents. You have to play to your enemies weakness if you want to win. Your LG paladin is immune to "Fear" but that means magical fear. That doesn't mean you have no emotional fear. Sometimes it's time to fall back and return with a stronger force for the greater good.
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@Latok:
Your LG paladin is immune to "Fear" but that means magical fear. That doesn't mean you have no emotional fear.
Totally off topic, but I believe after input from Ponies we have established that paladins are immune to even normal fear. Whether they choose to retreat from the balor is another matter, they're just not scared. Paladins are weird dudes.
@Player:
Beginning at third level, a paladin is immune to fear, magical or otherwise.
K back on topic.
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What I have done, and lets be honest here everyone knows I am terrible at mechanics. All I did to do "well" in PvP/PvE/DM Events and be able to lose AND win whilst still having fun is keeping calm oocly and remember it is a game if there ever is an issue nudge a DM. In general, besides ooc stuff, many nailed here by saying ALWAYS have plenty of supplies, know when to run and also when losing express fear, worries or try to worm your way out of it.
My basic "survival" kit, for PvP, EvE, DM events etc
Blur Potions, at least 20
Shield Potions, at least 30
Barskin Potions, at least 30
Healing Potions, at least 50
Healing Kits, at least 50
Herb Bags, at least 25
Restoration of any kind, at least 10
Disciple Gems/Healing Wands, at least 10
You can use wands? Have 2 to spare!
Invis Potions, ALWAYS
Haste, at least 10 emergency only or when you want that extra kick
True Seeing, perfect for when the criminals try to run away or you want to go after the escaping goody, at least 15
Dispel Object/Wand/Scroll whatever you can use, at least 10
Supplies matter more than having gold in your pocket
Fear of using supplies will most likely end up in your death
Bags of holding, and keep some random wildcards on you, never know when they could helpThe ONLY reason I know this, is because I followed the kind suggestions over people OVER TIME. Nothing happened over night and I defiantly still don't really understand what I am doing. But I enjoyed it, I had fun and I learned. Ask pro's for help when you make the character, approach characters about you wanting to make sure you don't lose that crucial duel next day. Have RP session with your nemesis, be it a duel where you both back out in a dramatic fashion, sit in a neutral zone and discuss your deep reasons behind everything. Or make a mustard sandwich and wonder why.
If you lose, take it to the chin. Consider how your character will take it, will they cry and beg for mercy? Will they grith their teeth, spit blood and say they will never get away with it?! Shall your character angrily throw themselves off a cliff after hours of negotiations whilst screaming "You will never take me alive"! Will they throw themselves before their friend so that their friend can escape, and you be the sacrificing lamb?! (Which I have seen happen IG, and I wept and it was awesome)